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That’s right.

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That’s what I do, and I
present it really simply.

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Here’s a pie chart, here’s a bar chart.

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I’ve got detailed exhibits
that go on for pages and pages,

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but they’re all summarized in
those pictorial, uh, diagrams.

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And, and if you can do that with a
picture or a pie chart or something

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that simplifies it for people.

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Today, I’m speaking with Mark Ellwood.

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Mark is a productivity consultant.

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His most recent book, The Poetic
Path to Getting More Done and he’s

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got a website, getmoredone.com.

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Mark, could you please introduce yourself?

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Let people know just a little
more about you, please.

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Well, thanks, uh, for being here, Ed.

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Uh, I’m a productivity
consultant, as you said.

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A little while back, I invented a small
electronic device called Time Quarter.

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For those who are watching, it
looks like this and it allows you

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to track how you spend your time
working on different activities.

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So I lend that out to employees,
they really enjoy using these

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to track their own time.

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I analyze the results and show
organizations how their employees can

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get an extra hour per day to spend
on their top priority activities.

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Well, we all need a new device that gives
us an hour a day more for each of us.

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That would be excellent, Mark.

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Uh, what, what did you start
doing this for, tracking time?

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What got you into that?

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Well, you know, there’s a lot of
specialists and experts out there

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who said, uh, You know, my life
was really in shambles, I was

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struggling, I didn’t know anything.

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And that was the case for me.

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I was eleven years old.

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So, um, back when I was eleven,
I started delivering newspapers.

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And maybe lots of your audience doesn’t
know a bunch about that business,

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but we would go to a depot and, uh,
seven or eight of us, and all the

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papers would get delivered there.

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And then we’d gather them up and then
take them in our bags and deliver

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them to people’s houses or apartments.

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Well, on the weekend, the newspaper always
came with a colored magazine insert.

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They were published separately and
you had to put the inserts inside the

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newspapers to deliver them together.

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And so I watched these other guys and
then kind of struggle and put this

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piece here and open that up there.

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And I thought, This is
classic time and motion stuff.

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Well, not that I knew that term
at the time, um, but I thought,

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How could I do this faster?

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So organizing the work, the magazines
and the paper and the completed pile,

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was important to me to figure out how I
could do that as fast as, as possible.

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Well, I learned lots of other
things as a newspaper boy as well.

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So for instance, uh, lugging a
lot around those big heavy bags, I

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thought, Let’s invest in technology.

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So I bought a wagon and it was much
easier to take the papers around and

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deliver them on a wagon than by hand.

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You also get into what’s called
operations research, how you

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organize tasks and how things happen.

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So imagine this, you’re dragging
the wagon up one side of the street,

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but you gotta deliver papers to
the other side of the street.

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So do you take one with
you and then come back?

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Or do you take two or three?

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And so that was a fascinating
exercise for me to figure out

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what’s the fastest way with, I
guess the shortest number of steps.

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Another thing you could do is
you could fold the papers up.

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You’ve seen kids in movies, tossing
papers at people’s houses from bikes.

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So you can fold the papers up, it
takes three seconds or four seconds,

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and then walk and throw the paper.

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Or there is a way to throw a newspaper
underhand with the paper not folded and

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you can kind of toss it up and hopefully
it would slide into somebody’s door.

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So, okay, so you’ve gotta
make some calculations there.

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Do I fold the papers?

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Or just, do I save steps?

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Or do I throw them by hand?

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So all that was thinking
about productivity.

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And then on my last paper route, I had
about 130 customers and uh, I had to

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go and collect every week from them.

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You gotta knock on someone’s
door on Tuesday night.

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Hi, it’s Mark from the
paper, I’m collecting.

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And it occurred to me that
was taking a lot of time.

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So I divided the root in half, I went to
half of the people on weeks one and three

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and half of them on weeks two and four.

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And instead of collecting for one week,
I collected for two weeks at a time.

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And I could manage my cash
flow and that worked fine.

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So that was kind of
batching tasks together.

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So all these different approaches, uh,
got me thinking about productivity.

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There was one other, some of the
people paid at the office, so to speak.

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So, um, everyone does that today, right?

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You pay electronically.

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Um, and I suppose in retrospect, I
might’ve encouraged more customers

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to pay directly at the office.

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I wouldn’t have had to
knock on their door.

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But by knocking on doors,
you got better tips.

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So there’s a bit of a trade off there.

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Um, and so all these things were
getting me to think about productivity.

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I mean, I didn’t, I didn’t consider
myself an expert at the time.

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I was just trying to figure out
how to deliver the papers quickly.

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And so maybe that’s my origin story.

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Many years later, I’ll just continue,
uh, briefly, uh, in the corporate life, I

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was in a meeting and everybody was late.

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And, uh, I thought, Oh man, you know,
we’re spending a lot of time here

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waiting for everybody to show up.

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Boy, if you add up your time, and his,
and hers, and mine, and I just had

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this kind of aha moment that you could
measure that and have a little device

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and a way you can measure meeting time,
and waiting, and paperwork, and so on.

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So the aha went off of about developing
the Time Quarter, which is kind

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of like a chess clock in reverse.

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You’ve got two clocks
that tick down the time.

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Instead you’re ticking up the
time, you’re adding it up.

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and instead of two, you’ve got
twenty-five, or thirty, or whatever.

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So that was the aha moment for
the Time Quarter device, uh, to

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continue my journey of trying to
be more productive with the world.

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Yeah.

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It, it’s interesting.

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I really like the idea of this Time
Quarter device that you put together.

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Uh, the big question is, in, in
today’s world, we use a phone for

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everything and everyone wants to
know why it’s not an app instead of

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the coder device that you hand out.

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Yep.

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Well, I can tell you, I, I
launched the device way before

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any of these smartphones or apps.

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I mean, originally 1989 with
the previous version, and it

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turned out to be the world’s most
popular product that everybody

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thought somebody else should buy.

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So I, I originally targeted for lawyers.

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And I went to them, they said, Eh,
you know, not quite right for us.

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Maybe you should talk to
accountants ’cause that’s gonna

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really work for their business.

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So we did a test, in fact, it was
on national TV and people were

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trying the device and it turned out,
they said, You know, independent

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consultants are really gonna like this.

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So I went to the independent
consultants and they said,

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Have you talked to the lawyers yet?

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So it was a big circle.

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So I pivoted and instead of, uh,
trying to sell the device, I lent it

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out and used it as a consulting tool.

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It’s much more profitable that way.

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But you asked about the app.

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Well, we did a project for the Ontario
government here in Canada a while back.

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I teamed up with, um,
PricewaterhouseCoopers and we would not

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have got anywhere close to winning that
contract had we had a downloadable app.

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These are union people and they were
really concerned about the anonymity

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of the studies, which we promise.

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And, um, asking them to take your
personal phone and download Mark

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Ellwood’s app thing on it where he’s
got access to your phone and all your

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data, that just wouldn’t have gone over.

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So they really liked the idea
that it was a separate device.

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In fact, the funniest story I tell is
when we first presented to, it to them.

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Uh, we had already won the contract,
PricewaterhouseCoopers and myself, but

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we presented to, to them and I just, you
know, had to show them how it worked.

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And the union person said,
You know, that little list of

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activities you’ve got there?

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Could you make the font
a little bit bigger?

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And I thought, Okay, fine.

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We’re good with that.

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So, uh, turns out that worked really well.

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Um, there’s other reasons besides privacy.

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Um, the Time Quarter’s always
on, your phone is not always on.

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It’s giving you constant feedback,
the batteries will last 200 hours.

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Your phone has to get charged in seven
or eight hours, and so you, you’ve gotta

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take it away and charge it and so on.

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Our device is always constantly
giving you feedback, it’s measuring

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the stuff you’re doing on your phone,
um, and it’s ergonomically simple.

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On your phone, you’d have to pull
up the app and scroll through,

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and this and that, whatever.

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The Time Quarter device is just slightly
less complicated to use than a doorbell.

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So, um, doorbell, you never,
did, did it ring or not?

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But the Time Quarter gives you
audio tactile and visual feedback.

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You can see that it’s on,
that it’s ticking away.

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People really like it, and mostly
because we promise anonymity.

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And so when you get people involved,
when you get them to help create this

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list of activities, when you tell
them you’re gonna measure all this

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non-value added stuff that’s slowing
them down, then they say, Oh, okay, good.

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And promise anonymity.

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So I don’t use any individual’s
names in any of our reports.

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In some of our recent studies, I didn’t
even know who the people were at all.

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I just had to use code numbers.

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So, um, that’s what
encourages them to get keen.

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And, you know, I work part-time as a,
as a ski instructor on the weekends and

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they’re pushing hard for us to fill out
our employee satisfaction surveys and

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they’re getting up to maybe 70 or 80%.

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And that’s a stretch ’cause
they’re really pushing hard.

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This, we get a participation rate
with the Time Quarter device of 94%.

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People really like using it
’cause it gives them feedback

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and they can see what’s going on.

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So that’s kind of unheard of for,
uh, you know, employee surveys.

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And so when you give them, you
know, one of these to use, they

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like it, it’s fun, it’s simple,
and that’s, that’s how it works.

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So what type of activities do
employers like to track to make

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sure their time is managed properly?

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I think I’ve measured more than just about
any, uh, any other person on the planet.

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Uh, I have a database of 3000 activities.

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Now some of them are kind of similar
to each other, Uh, calling about a

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mortgage renewal, uh, calling about, uh,
you know, uh, loan renewal, and so on.

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Any of those are sort of similar.

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Um, but the activities really are
two major, you know, categories.

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One, what are the things you
need to be doing in your job?

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What are your most important priorities?

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And two, what is everything else?

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Uh, the administrative tasks,
uh, personal time, you know,

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dealing with complaints, whatever.

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Uh, so we’re trying to see, how do
we get people to focus on what’s

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important and what are those things.

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Some people call them
time wasters, I don’t.

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Uh, they’re just necessary parts of
the job, but they’re the less, uh, uh,

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important or the non-value added tasks.

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Interesting.

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So how did the app come,
err, it’s not an app.

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See, here I am modernizing you, Mark.

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How, how does this
device get put together?

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Uh, it, it had to be a
process to come up with this.

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Did you have a team of
engineers help you with this?

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Or how did that come about?

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Kind of, yes.

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I mean, I sometimes call myself an
inventor, but you know, inventors

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tend to be a little outside of the
norm, but I guess I invented it.

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So first, you know, I had this
idea, I mean, again, it’s sort

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of chess clock in reverse.

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Uh, and so, so that was sort of
already an idea that was out there.

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Uh, but then I had to figure, okay,
well how do I build this thing?

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So I found an engineer, an old buddy
of mine who built the two prototypes

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00:13:12,420 –> 00:13:15,750
for me, and then we had another
engineer further modify those.

219
00:13:16,109 –> 00:13:20,280
I had an industrial designer, those
are people who figure out, you know,

220
00:13:20,280 –> 00:13:22,860
what is this container look like?

221
00:13:23,010 –> 00:13:24,660
How does everything fit together?

222
00:13:24,900 –> 00:13:28,230
Had a graphic designer design, you
know, what the graphics look like.

223
00:13:28,800 –> 00:13:31,350
But there’s also the user interface,

224
00:13:31,380 –> 00:13:32,280
that was me.

225
00:13:32,610 –> 00:13:35,880
You know, I’d sit around with a pad
at night thinking, Okay, you push

226
00:13:35,880 –> 00:13:38,190
this button, and then that happens.

227
00:13:38,520 –> 00:13:42,880
So it’s real simple, you just push one
button and it begins tracking your time.

228
00:13:43,479 –> 00:13:47,360
But we needed a couple of other buttons
if you needed to make a manual adjustment.

229
00:13:47,390 –> 00:13:51,590
Okay, what would this series of
button pushes for that look like?

230
00:13:51,890 –> 00:13:55,850
Um, what if you wanted to scroll through
and look at how you’re spending your

231
00:13:55,850 –> 00:13:57,380
time on all these different activities?

232
00:13:57,650 –> 00:14:01,280
So there are only, well, eight other
sort of function buttons, but I

233
00:14:01,280 –> 00:14:03,290
wanted to keep that to a, a minimum.

234
00:14:03,670 –> 00:14:06,849
It occurred to me, you know, I used to
go to trade shows and watching people

235
00:14:07,030 –> 00:14:10,540
on computers and say, Look at our
computer program, or an app, or whatever.

236
00:14:10,900 –> 00:14:13,660
And they go, Well, you simply
push this and just add that.

237
00:14:13,660 –> 00:14:19,239
And the words simply and just,
were always worrisome to me.

238
00:14:19,599 –> 00:14:22,510
Because the person who developed
this thing, you know, they, they

239
00:14:22,599 –> 00:14:26,140
eat, drink, and sleep with the thing
and they know it inside out and they

240
00:14:26,140 –> 00:14:27,699
really know how to work it well.

241
00:14:28,239 –> 00:14:31,060
Whereas I thought, No, people
haven’t used this device.

242
00:14:31,239 –> 00:14:33,219
You’ve gotta make it dead simple for them.

243
00:14:33,720 –> 00:14:37,079
Turn it on, push one button
and it’s tracking your time.

244
00:14:37,079 –> 00:14:40,530
Now there’s a list of activities
that, that’s corresponding to those,

245
00:14:40,770 –> 00:14:43,680
uh, letters of the alphabet, so
we give that to people as well.

246
00:14:43,980 –> 00:14:47,640
So I used to say, You could learn
to use it in about five seconds.

247
00:14:48,150 –> 00:14:51,720
And then there’s doing some of the manual
adjustments, it takes a little longer.

248
00:14:51,960 –> 00:14:53,430
But you’ve gotta make it simple.

249
00:14:53,640 –> 00:14:57,675
And so, you know, you look at
Amazon and they’ve tried to, you

250
00:14:57,675 –> 00:15:01,455
know, get rid of all those sort of
impediments, they’ve done that well.

251
00:15:01,605 –> 00:15:05,025
But there’s a lot of products and services
out there where you have to press a

252
00:15:05,025 –> 00:15:06,705
whole bunch of buttons and things.

253
00:15:07,095 –> 00:15:12,385
Um, and I’ve seen people complaining about
that recently with, uh, Bill Maher on his

254
00:15:12,385 –> 00:15:14,995
late night show, talked about a valet app.

255
00:15:15,055 –> 00:15:19,105
So he’s parking his car at a restaurant
and he wants to go retrieve his car.

256
00:15:19,105 –> 00:15:22,105
Well, you gotta download the
app, and create a password and an

257
00:15:22,105 –> 00:15:23,365
account number, and this and that.

258
00:15:23,605 –> 00:15:25,285
He goes, I just wanna get my car back.

259
00:15:25,705 –> 00:15:30,085
And we’ve seen that with many other
types of apps that complicate things.

260
00:15:30,325 –> 00:15:35,974
Uh, sure you’re gathering data, sure it’s
in a secure space and you can analyze

261
00:15:35,974 –> 00:15:38,344
that data, but it’s gotta be kept simple.

262
00:15:38,555 –> 00:15:42,935
And so with the Time Quarter
device, I think we’ve got it, um, by

263
00:15:42,935 –> 00:15:46,025
experimenting a little bit, by doing
some of those thought experiments.

264
00:15:46,324 –> 00:15:47,045
We kept the,

265
00:15:47,715 –> 00:15:49,245
we kept it simple to use.

266
00:15:49,245 –> 00:15:52,064
And, and giving instant
feedback and uncomplicated.

267
00:15:52,454 –> 00:15:55,454
When I, early on, when I tried to
sell it to lawyers and that didn’t

268
00:15:55,454 –> 00:15:58,545
work, they said, Well, we need it to
do this and we need it to do that.

269
00:15:58,995 –> 00:16:02,695
And I thought, If you add up all
of those features that they wanted,

270
00:16:03,465 –> 00:16:05,040
it’s gonna get way too complicated.

271
00:16:05,430 –> 00:16:09,810
Think about the stuff you use, you
know, uh, Microsoft Office, there’s

272
00:16:10,110 –> 00:16:13,470
lots and lots of functions on
there people don’t know how to use.

273
00:16:13,980 –> 00:16:18,180
And I suppose for the power users, that’s
great, but you’ve gotta keep it simple.

274
00:16:18,180 –> 00:16:22,020
And Apple did that with their products
by keeping the user interface simple.

275
00:16:23,430 –> 00:16:24,660
Yeah, I like that a lot.

276
00:16:24,810 –> 00:16:31,380
So what’s the acceptance rate from
the employees when they take on

277
00:16:31,380 –> 00:16:35,190
this, uh, study from the employer?

278
00:16:35,190 –> 00:16:37,380
What, how do they feel about it?

279
00:16:38,460 –> 00:16:38,640
Yep.

280
00:16:39,450 –> 00:16:42,330
Well, that’s the number
I mentioned early, 94%.

281
00:16:42,330 –> 00:16:46,814
So if we give out a hundred
devices, yeah, 94 will come back

282
00:16:46,814 –> 00:16:49,214
with high quality detailed data.

283
00:16:49,515 –> 00:16:52,574
The other six, maybe somebody just
didn’t start for some reason ’cause

284
00:16:52,574 –> 00:16:55,694
they were about to leave or quit,
or maternity leave, or something.

285
00:16:56,145 –> 00:17:01,574
Um, sometimes in that six, uh, you
can make manual adjustments and

286
00:17:01,574 –> 00:17:05,264
people just make way too many manual
adjustments or they do them incorrectly.

287
00:17:05,264 –> 00:17:09,135
And so I’ve got some algorithms to
show me, uh, maybe I shouldn’t keep

288
00:17:09,135 –> 00:17:11,054
that data and just put it aside.

289
00:17:11,355 –> 00:17:16,730
But 94% is pretty amazing and people
are tracking hundreds of activities

290
00:17:16,940 –> 00:17:19,880
over the course of two weeks
when we normally do the studies.

291
00:17:20,210 –> 00:17:24,950
So, yeah, every time they come back,
I’m surprised at how detailed people

292
00:17:24,950 –> 00:17:26,810
were with, with their, uh, tracking.

293
00:17:27,980 –> 00:17:32,900
Some of the information that
you’ve accumulated over the

294
00:17:32,900 –> 00:17:36,290
years is pretty interesting.

295
00:17:36,410 –> 00:17:44,385
The fact that women are better at time
management than men is one of those facts.

296
00:17:44,805 –> 00:17:52,095
How did you come up with that fact and
how much data did it take to compile

297
00:17:52,755 –> 00:17:57,495
to ultimately decide this is factual?

298
00:17:59,085 –> 00:18:03,375
So I go to, uh, conferences every
year or so, the International

299
00:18:03,675 –> 00:18:05,675
Association of Time Use Research.

300
00:18:05,675 –> 00:18:08,595
These are a lot of academics and
people working for government,

301
00:18:08,715 –> 00:18:13,545
uh, operations, the US Bureau of
Labor Statistics, uh, among others.

302
00:18:13,845 –> 00:18:17,085
And they do a lot of
studies of, uh, time use.

303
00:18:17,085 –> 00:18:23,025
And so what we found out is, across
a large number of typically Western

304
00:18:23,025 –> 00:18:29,325
countries, um, at home, uh, and
domestically, women are more responsible

305
00:18:29,325 –> 00:18:31,125
for domestic chores than men.

306
00:18:31,680 –> 00:18:36,510
So that’s childcare, cooking, cleaning,
uh, shopping, and a couple of others.

307
00:18:37,050 –> 00:18:40,470
And so I thought, Well, what does
it look like in the workplace?

308
00:18:40,800 –> 00:18:44,220
And so those time studies
don’t tend to get that granular

309
00:18:44,220 –> 00:18:45,840
as I do in the workplace.

310
00:18:46,230 –> 00:18:48,690
So I thought, Well, let’s see,
uh, if there’s differences.

311
00:18:49,200 –> 00:18:52,560
So I have a database, ’cause
I’ve been gathering all this data

312
00:18:52,560 –> 00:18:54,450
for, well, thirty-five years.

313
00:18:55,245 –> 00:19:01,004
And I thought, Okay, uh, it’s 500,000
hours of data from, you know, dozens

314
00:19:01,004 –> 00:19:04,905
and dozens of corporations and thousands
of individuals who’ve done this.

315
00:19:05,294 –> 00:19:08,834
So all the way along, I knew my
database was gonna be of some value.

316
00:19:08,834 –> 00:19:11,895
So I have a lot of different
analysis that I’m able to look at.

317
00:19:12,165 –> 00:19:16,024
So I’m working for this client, but I
can compare the results to that claim.

318
00:19:16,485 –> 00:19:19,925
So looking across the whole
database, I first decided,

319
00:19:20,165 –> 00:19:21,275
well, let’s split it in two.

320
00:19:21,335 –> 00:19:23,795
Let’s have a men database and a women one.

321
00:19:24,065 –> 00:19:28,835
So I did that by names, Susan is a
woman, Uh, you know, Samuel is a man.

322
00:19:29,015 –> 00:19:31,415
And I had to go through all the
names and kind of sort them ’cause

323
00:19:31,415 –> 00:19:35,015
I had people’s names, we don’t
give them back to the clients.

324
00:19:35,345 –> 00:19:36,875
Uh, but nonetheless, I had them.

325
00:19:37,355 –> 00:19:40,895
Where I didn’t have names,
I just put that data aside.

326
00:19:41,670 –> 00:19:44,670
So I started to look at,
what are the differences?

327
00:19:44,940 –> 00:19:47,910
And I concluded, as you mentioned,
that women are better at

328
00:19:47,910 –> 00:19:49,770
managing their time than men.

329
00:19:50,160 –> 00:19:54,030
There were four major findings and we
could go through those if you like,

330
00:19:54,300 –> 00:19:57,990
uh, one at a time to, to explain
how I came up with that conclusion.

331
00:19:59,070 –> 00:20:01,290
Sure we’d love to hear that, Mark.

332
00:20:02,610 –> 00:20:04,469
Well, let’s start, start
with the first one.

333
00:20:04,740 –> 00:20:10,980
Um, first I discovered, uh, that women
worked fewer hours per week than men.

334
00:20:11,070 –> 00:20:14,939
Now these are knowledge workers,
they’re people like sales reps, and

335
00:20:14,939 –> 00:20:20,100
managers, and customer service reps,
and construction supervisors and so on.

336
00:20:20,520 –> 00:20:24,480
Uh, but they’re largely working in
offices, it’s not people on the retail.

337
00:20:24,835 –> 00:20:28,585
I’ve done a few retail studies, uh,
or they’re not manufacturing jobs.

338
00:20:29,035 –> 00:20:32,365
Um, and, uh, I include personal time.

339
00:20:32,365 –> 00:20:36,025
Because if you go to the office,
while you’re there at the office and

340
00:20:36,025 –> 00:20:40,195
whether you eat in the food court or
the cafeteria, or at your desk, you

341
00:20:40,195 –> 00:20:41,545
know, you’re, you’re still there.

342
00:20:41,725 –> 00:20:45,805
And similarly, for people working from
home, we count personal time as well.

343
00:20:45,805 –> 00:20:49,885
So if you add all that up, it’s
about forty-six hours per week.

344
00:20:50,245 –> 00:20:53,425
Uh, so personal plus, personal is
only about three hours per week.

345
00:20:53,875 –> 00:21:00,435
So women are at forty-five hours,
men are at forty-eight hours, and

346
00:21:00,435 –> 00:21:02,235
that’s the total number of hours.

347
00:21:02,504 –> 00:21:03,855
And you say, Well, why is that?

348
00:21:03,855 –> 00:21:07,995
Well, guess who’s gotta get home to
pick people up, uh, children up from

349
00:21:07,995 –> 00:21:09,945
daycare, and cook dinner, and so on.

350
00:21:10,455 –> 00:21:12,375
So that was the first of the findings.

351
00:21:12,524 –> 00:21:15,254
Um, the second one is
a little more complex.

352
00:21:15,645 –> 00:21:20,655
Um, if you read time management
books, they always talk about working

353
00:21:20,655 –> 00:21:22,500
on your most important activities.

354
00:21:23,129 –> 00:21:25,170
They don’t really define what those are.

355
00:21:25,830 –> 00:21:31,395
Um, Stephen Covey talked about his,
um, important, uh, urgent matrix,

356
00:21:31,395 –> 00:21:33,405
which is called the Eisenhower Matrix.

357
00:21:33,764 –> 00:21:38,145
It wasn’t really President Eisenhower,
he was in fact, uh, quoting a

358
00:21:38,145 –> 00:21:42,105
university dean who had come up
with that urgent important idea.

359
00:21:42,315 –> 00:21:46,185
And then Eisenhower continued
it and Covey popularized it.

360
00:21:46,514 –> 00:21:49,455
So you wanna work on
so-called quadrant two.

361
00:21:49,695 –> 00:21:55,455
Those are your, uh, important but not
urgent activities compared to urgent.

362
00:21:55,455 –> 00:21:58,425
But important and so on, so
important but not urgent.

363
00:21:58,815 –> 00:22:01,305
And so again, Covey didn’t
really define those.

364
00:22:01,305 –> 00:22:02,715
I thought, Well, maybe I can.

365
00:22:03,375 –> 00:22:09,510
Turns out before we do our time studies,
we ask people, What are the most important

366
00:22:09,510 –> 00:22:11,130
things you need to do in your job?

367
00:22:11,430 –> 00:22:12,330
I thought, Ah, that’s it.

368
00:22:12,330 –> 00:22:13,230
Okay, I’ll use that.

369
00:22:13,680 –> 00:22:18,150
So if you ask sales reps, they’ll tell
you processing orders, and taking care of

370
00:22:18,150 –> 00:22:19,830
customers, and dealing with complaints.

371
00:22:20,160 –> 00:22:24,270
But the number one item is
prospecting for new business.

372
00:22:24,690 –> 00:22:25,380
I thought, Okay.

373
00:22:25,730 –> 00:22:31,040
That’s the most important activity, not
urgent, for sales reps. So I looked at

374
00:22:31,040 –> 00:22:35,840
about a dozen different jobs and mapped
all those for those different jobs.

375
00:22:36,140 –> 00:22:36,800
And then thought, Okay.

376
00:22:36,800 –> 00:22:38,690
Well, how are they spending their time?

377
00:22:39,080 –> 00:22:44,070
If prospecting is what you’re saying
you need to do as a sales rep or

378
00:22:44,070 –> 00:22:48,600
managing and coaching employees is what
you say you should do as a manager,

379
00:22:48,990 –> 00:22:50,670
how is your time compared to that?

380
00:22:51,000 –> 00:22:53,760
So across the whole
database, I looked at that.

381
00:22:54,120 –> 00:22:58,920
And found out, this is key,
the average is only 20%.

382
00:22:59,520 –> 00:23:03,990
So for top priority activities, people
are only spending 20% of their time.

383
00:23:04,725 –> 00:23:08,145
That sounds like that, that
Pareto number, 20/80 rule.

384
00:23:08,145 –> 00:23:09,735
It’s not, that’s a little bit different.

385
00:23:10,125 –> 00:23:12,314
It’s just coincidental
that the number’s the same.

386
00:23:13,215 –> 00:23:19,385
Turns out for women, it’s
22% and men are only at 18%.

387
00:23:19,855 –> 00:23:24,764
So women are working fewer hours and
within those hours they’re spending

388
00:23:24,824 –> 00:23:29,350
a higher percentage of their time
on their top priority activities.

389
00:23:29,700 –> 00:23:30,810
And there you go.

390
00:23:31,860 –> 00:23:33,570
That’s very interesting, Mark.

391
00:23:33,960 –> 00:23:40,140
So all of this data sifting is very
complicated for so many people, they

392
00:23:40,140 –> 00:23:42,270
don’t even like to look at data.

393
00:23:43,110 –> 00:23:48,840
So when you’re compiling these reports
for people, you’re the one that actually

394
00:23:48,840 –> 00:23:55,200
is sifting through and the client doesn’t
necessarily have to get their hands dirty

395
00:23:55,200 –> 00:23:58,710
with all of the complicated data sets.

396
00:24:00,570 –> 00:24:01,830
That’s right, that’s what I do.

397
00:24:01,830 –> 00:24:06,450
And I present it really simply, here’s
a pie chart, here’s a bar chart.

398
00:24:06,600 –> 00:24:09,720
I’ve got detailed exhibits
that go on for pages and pages,

399
00:24:09,720 –> 00:24:13,800
but they’re all summarized in
those pictorial, uh, diagrams.

400
00:24:13,800 –> 00:24:17,325
And, and if you can do that with a
picture, or a pie chart, or something,

401
00:24:17,655 –> 00:24:19,754
that simplifies it for people.

402
00:24:20,054 –> 00:24:24,195
And so that’s my job is to use my
different tools to analyze that.

403
00:24:24,195 –> 00:24:26,355
I’ve got three or four
different analytical tools

404
00:24:26,355 –> 00:24:27,794
to, to look at all that data.

405
00:24:28,215 –> 00:24:29,955
Uh, you gotta keep it simple for people.

406
00:24:30,225 –> 00:24:36,435
I guess also, I don’t know where or
when, but I got this idea that science

407
00:24:36,435 –> 00:24:38,325
is important, that data is important.

408
00:24:38,745 –> 00:24:42,435
And so if you look at a lot of
popular speakers or trainers,

409
00:24:42,600 –> 00:24:45,810
you know, they talk about,
in my area, time management.

410
00:24:45,810 –> 00:24:49,770
But it could be leadership and
communication skills, and they kind

411
00:24:49,770 –> 00:24:51,840
of say things that make some sense.

412
00:24:52,139 –> 00:24:56,180
Uh, and maybe that’s based on personal
experience, or observations, or whatever.

413
00:24:56,840 –> 00:25:01,320
But if you can root it in real data,
that to me is the better way to go.

414
00:25:01,320 –> 00:25:05,850
Because, uh, it, there’s just a
higher credibility layer there.

415
00:25:05,850 –> 00:25:08,850
It, it’s science rather
than stuff that I made up.

416
00:25:09,270 –> 00:25:12,419
And again, you go on LinkedIn
for instance, you hear people

417
00:25:12,419 –> 00:25:13,830
talking about all kinds of ideas.

418
00:25:14,399 –> 00:25:19,440
I think it has, not really true in
terms of a, a, a, based on data.

419
00:25:19,440 –> 00:25:22,200
So that’s, that’s the way I
like to approach the world.

420
00:25:24,149 –> 00:25:36,510
So, so who should be using this type of
technology to perfect their organizations?

421
00:25:38,189 –> 00:25:39,929
Well, I, I say anyone should.

422
00:25:40,320 –> 00:25:45,689
Um, I’ve come to a kind of a new
conclusion that kinda, uh, pulls the rug

423
00:25:45,689 –> 00:25:47,399
out of a lot of what I’ve been saying.

424
00:25:47,399 –> 00:25:53,580
But organizations have kind of gotten
a free ride from their employees,

425
00:25:53,580 –> 00:25:54,930
certainly knowledge workers.

426
00:25:55,230 –> 00:25:59,760
Hourly paid workers, when someone
works extra, you pay them extra.

427
00:26:00,000 –> 00:26:02,370
Either just an extra hour or two or maybe

428
00:26:03,145 –> 00:26:04,465
time and a half for overtime.

429
00:26:05,004 –> 00:26:07,314
So there’s a real cost there.

430
00:26:07,945 –> 00:26:11,034
But when you look at knowledge
workers, your managers for

431
00:26:11,034 –> 00:26:15,395
instance, and maybe they’re sort of
contracted to, for like forty-two

432
00:26:15,415 –> 00:26:17,095
hours per week, is sort of typical.

433
00:26:17,395 –> 00:26:18,985
Uh, and that includes lunch and whatnot.

434
00:26:19,074 –> 00:26:21,804
So, okay, you, we want you
there from nine to five.

435
00:26:21,985 –> 00:26:24,715
And if you show up at noon, well,
you’re gonna get a talking to.

436
00:26:25,105 –> 00:26:28,074
But come in between nine to five
or the equivalent, eight to four.

437
00:26:28,735 –> 00:26:33,060
But if they stay longer,
nobody says anything.

438
00:26:33,510 –> 00:26:36,870
They stay longer because they want to
get promoted, because they enjoy the

439
00:26:36,870 –> 00:26:38,730
work, some people don’t wanna go home.

440
00:26:39,030 –> 00:26:42,540
Uh, and, and they really, you know,
embrace that and that’s terrific.

441
00:26:42,960 –> 00:26:45,030
But corporations are getting
a free ride from that.

442
00:26:45,030 –> 00:26:48,885
So, as I mentioned, the average
is not forty hours per week,

443
00:26:48,885 –> 00:26:49,935
it’s forty-six hours.

444
00:26:49,965 –> 00:26:51,524
And people are working longer than that.

445
00:26:51,585 –> 00:26:54,945
Managers, for instance, tend
to be around forty-nine hours.

446
00:26:55,335 –> 00:26:59,504
So corporations are getting
free labor from those, um, from,

447
00:26:59,504 –> 00:27:01,004
from those knowledge workers.

448
00:27:01,485 –> 00:27:08,429
The problem is that free labor ends up
turning into resentment, or bad morale, or

449
00:27:08,550 –> 00:27:12,570
stress, uh, or, you know, problems at home
’cause they’re not getting home on time.

450
00:27:12,899 –> 00:27:17,340
So there’s a huge cost to that in terms
of turnover, and retention, and so on.

451
00:27:17,820 –> 00:27:20,909
But for the most part, corporations
are saying, Well, this is great.

452
00:27:21,480 –> 00:27:26,645
Having said that, for those who
realize that productivity is

453
00:27:26,645 –> 00:27:28,985
important, this is where this kicks in.

454
00:27:29,345 –> 00:27:32,705
So, all right, your people are working
forty, or forty-five, or fifty hours

455
00:27:32,705 –> 00:27:36,845
per week, but they’re spending twenty
hours on that non-value added work.

456
00:27:37,145 –> 00:27:41,505
Wouldn’t you wanna reduce that so
that your knowledge workers can

457
00:27:41,505 –> 00:27:45,465
spend their highest amount of time,
whether it’s overtime or not, on

458
00:27:45,465 –> 00:27:47,085
their highest priority activities.

459
00:27:47,415 –> 00:27:49,845
So this is a diagnostic tool.

460
00:27:50,415 –> 00:27:55,065
Now it’s interesting, during Covid there
were all kinds of employee monitoring,

461
00:27:55,335 –> 00:28:00,105
uh, software and apps and so on that
came out and people didn’t like that.

462
00:28:00,435 –> 00:28:05,175
Um, so they were tracking keystrokes or
they were tracking websites you visited.

463
00:28:05,505 –> 00:28:10,364
You know, if somebody’s working
on Word, are they writing a note

464
00:28:10,364 –> 00:28:13,604
to their friend, or their wedding
invitation, or a thank you note?

465
00:28:13,725 –> 00:28:17,445
Or are they doing a report, uh,
or doing something important

466
00:28:17,445 –> 00:28:18,375
that you want them to do?

467
00:28:18,375 –> 00:28:24,225
So, um, just tracking the type of
program they’re using, uh, doesn’t

468
00:28:24,225 –> 00:28:26,024
give you all that many indications.

469
00:28:26,264 –> 00:28:27,435
Now for websites, okay,

470
00:28:27,794 –> 00:28:30,975
if you go to an educational
website, you’re using that.

471
00:28:31,155 –> 00:28:34,604
Whereas it’s of a shopping site,
well, clearly that’s not what

472
00:28:34,604 –> 00:28:35,564
you’re supposed to be doing.

473
00:28:35,985 –> 00:28:41,625
But nonetheless, um, the employees
found these systems kind of, uh,

474
00:28:41,625 –> 00:28:44,685
they were, they were intrusive, and
they didn’t know what was going on,

475
00:28:44,685 –> 00:28:49,665
and it was kind of making employees
wrong for, you know, working at home.

476
00:28:50,715 –> 00:28:52,095
I don’t care about that stuff.

477
00:28:52,335 –> 00:28:55,305
There will be some personal time and
we measure that just to keep people

478
00:28:55,305 –> 00:28:57,375
in the rhythm of using the device.

479
00:28:57,675 –> 00:29:02,235
But if they’re shopping, or calling
their daycare, it really doesn’t matter

480
00:29:02,235 –> 00:29:06,315
to me ’cause it’s how much time you’re
spending on those important activities.

481
00:29:06,315 –> 00:29:07,875
That’s what’s, counts the most.

482
00:29:08,024 –> 00:29:10,335
And we don’t use employee names.

483
00:29:10,665 –> 00:29:15,014
So, um, this whole world of
measurement got kind of a bad rap

484
00:29:15,315 –> 00:29:17,685
with, uh, those covid measuring tools.

485
00:29:18,075 –> 00:29:20,145
And so I’m not in that world at all.

486
00:29:20,175 –> 00:29:24,105
I’m just doing quick two week
studies that diagnose where that

487
00:29:24,645 –> 00:29:26,505
non-value added time is going.

488
00:29:26,925 –> 00:29:31,815
So, uh, lots of corporations could benefit
from it, individuals could as well.

489
00:29:32,235 –> 00:29:34,965
The challenge is getting people
over that hump of wanting to

490
00:29:35,205 –> 00:29:36,945
actually analyze where they are.

491
00:29:37,875 –> 00:29:38,115
Yeah.

492
00:29:38,115 –> 00:29:42,615
And, and you know, even though
a lot of people feel that’s

493
00:29:42,615 –> 00:29:48,825
intimidating, it can actually save
you a lot of time and time is money.

494
00:29:49,305 –> 00:29:53,294
And money can do a lot of things.

495
00:29:53,534 –> 00:29:57,044
So it’s interesting
what you’ve done, Mark.

496
00:29:57,254 –> 00:30:05,324
So your book, The Poetic Path to Getting
More Done, it’s poems, uh, poetry?

497
00:30:05,655 –> 00:30:07,645
Could you tell us about this?

498
00:30:07,645 –> 00:30:08,845
Yes, I will.

499
00:30:08,845 –> 00:30:13,675
a while back I was, I was, uh, I,
you know, tweets were quite short

500
00:30:13,675 –> 00:30:16,825
and I realized I could do a rhyming
couplet in a tweet when the, the

501
00:30:16,825 –> 00:30:19,555
short of 140 characters existed.

502
00:30:19,975 –> 00:30:23,335
So, uh, I did some rhyming tweets and
I thought, Well, let’s do a book about

503
00:30:23,335 –> 00:30:25,405
this cause I’ve written poetry for ages.

504
00:30:25,765 –> 00:30:29,505
Um, I haven’t sold many copies, I
don’t know if Amazon even has it.

505
00:30:29,505 –> 00:30:34,455
But nonetheless, I, I quote those at, uh,
workshops and I give out copies and so on.

506
00:30:34,785 –> 00:30:37,155
Because if you’re gonna read up,
if you’re gonna learn about goal

507
00:30:37,155 –> 00:30:41,565
setting, uh, why not do it with, uh,
a little bit of a, a poem rather than,

508
00:30:41,835 –> 00:30:43,545
uh, just somebody lecturing at you.

509
00:30:43,545 –> 00:30:49,335
So, uh, it’s, it’s not grabbed,
uh, all over the world, but, uh,

510
00:30:49,365 –> 00:30:51,225
nonetheless, I’m proud of those poems.

511
00:30:51,705 –> 00:30:54,225
You mentioned, um, measuring a moment ago.

512
00:30:55,015 –> 00:31:00,370
And it seems to me that there are three
areas of our lives where there’s kind of

513
00:31:00,370 –> 00:31:02,650
an embarrassment factor that kicks in.

514
00:31:03,250 –> 00:31:05,650
And so one of them is finances.

515
00:31:05,650 –> 00:31:07,450
You mentioned time’s
money, finances, right?

516
00:31:07,780 –> 00:31:10,210
And you get people
saying, Oh, I don’t know.

517
00:31:10,210 –> 00:31:13,360
I don’t wanna know where I spend
all my money, uh, my credit card’s

518
00:31:13,360 –> 00:31:14,800
over and I’m paying this and that.

519
00:31:15,220 –> 00:31:18,070
And, and there’s this sort of
embarrassment about finances.

520
00:31:18,280 –> 00:31:22,930
We know where we need to be, uh, but we’re
not taking those steps to getting there.

521
00:31:23,380 –> 00:31:25,660
The second one is body image.

522
00:31:25,910 –> 00:31:29,600
Oh, I ate a whole, you know,
bucket of ice cream last night.

523
00:31:29,600 –> 00:31:31,550
I’m overweight, or I’m
not in shape, or whatever.

524
00:31:31,790 –> 00:31:35,960
And people know what they want to do
to have a healthy life, but they’re

525
00:31:35,960 –> 00:31:38,030
not always taking those steps.

526
00:31:38,330 –> 00:31:41,150
You know, in both of those
cases, measuring makes sense.

527
00:31:41,390 –> 00:31:45,200
For the finances, measure how you
spend your money last week and

528
00:31:45,200 –> 00:31:46,940
you’re gonna learn some things about

529
00:31:47,400 –> 00:31:50,130
how much you spend on coffee,
for instance, every day.

530
00:31:50,400 –> 00:31:56,300
Um, and, and for body image, whether
it’s weight, or, uh, how fast you can

531
00:31:56,330 –> 00:32:01,620
run half a marathon, or how many pushups
you can do, or it doesn’t matter, uh,

532
00:32:01,650 –> 00:32:05,970
but, but getting some measurements can
help us diagnose where we wanna be.

533
00:32:06,100 –> 00:32:09,270
It can measure your heart rate,
it can measure your oxygen intake.

534
00:32:09,690 –> 00:32:13,035
And so finally the third one
is this one, time management.

535
00:32:13,305 –> 00:32:14,595
Oh, I waste my time.

536
00:32:14,895 –> 00:32:15,435
Oh, don’t tell me.

537
00:32:15,435 –> 00:32:16,785
I know I waste my time.

538
00:32:17,055 –> 00:32:20,385
Yeah, but you said you wanna
spend more time with your family.

539
00:32:20,385 –> 00:32:24,975
You said you wanted to get a promotion,
so why not measure what’s going on?

540
00:32:25,215 –> 00:32:30,555
So in each of those three areas, uh,
and I’m not in the, in the weight loss

541
00:32:30,555 –> 00:32:31,635
business, but nonetheless, you know,

542
00:32:32,740 –> 00:32:35,050
get some data, measure your own time.

543
00:32:35,050 –> 00:32:38,200
And whether you use, uh, Time Quarter or
just a piece of paper, doesn’t matter.

544
00:32:38,530 –> 00:32:42,250
But get some data so you can
say, Oh, that’s what’s going on.

545
00:32:42,400 –> 00:32:46,000
Here’s where I wanna be and
here’s where I am and I can make

546
00:32:46,000 –> 00:32:47,740
the adjustments to get there.

547
00:32:48,010 –> 00:32:50,830
So, um, I, you know, I wish
more people were doing this.

548
00:32:50,830 –> 00:32:55,240
Many of the time management books
encourage you to do a, a diary

549
00:32:55,240 –> 00:32:57,070
study or write down your time use.

550
00:32:57,790 –> 00:33:00,985
But what they don’t do is they don’t
talk about where time is spent.

551
00:33:01,015 –> 00:33:05,845
I do, uh, because I’ve got that data and
I can see where people need to be going

552
00:33:05,905 –> 00:33:08,150
and what their ideal profiles look like.

553
00:33:09,490 –> 00:33:12,940
This is ultimately
personal accountability.

554
00:33:13,180 –> 00:33:18,940
And making sure that you use your
time properly and efficiently can

555
00:33:18,940 –> 00:33:24,790
actually make you feel so much
better about yourself overall.

556
00:33:25,240 –> 00:33:30,495
So I, I really enjoy, you know,
learning about these things.

557
00:33:30,495 –> 00:33:37,005
And once we start implementing time
management and tools into our life to

558
00:33:37,005 –> 00:33:40,815
simplify, it, it does make a difference.

559
00:33:41,415 –> 00:33:46,335
Mark, it’s, it’s always great
to talk about this stuff.

560
00:33:46,365 –> 00:33:50,835
Is there anything that we’ve missed that
you think we should highlight today?

561
00:33:51,880 –> 00:33:55,060
Well, uh, we haven’t talked
about how to do better and I’ll

562
00:33:55,060 –> 00:33:56,830
give people one terrific tip.

563
00:33:57,280 –> 00:34:01,780
Uh, everyone knows that you should
be writing a daily to-do list.

564
00:34:01,780 –> 00:34:03,040
And if you don’t, try it.

565
00:34:03,100 –> 00:34:06,280
Write on a post-it note, or back of an
envelope, or use an app, or whatever

566
00:34:06,280 –> 00:34:08,500
you wanna do, but create a to-do list.

567
00:34:09,130 –> 00:34:13,495
Here’s how I differ, uh, from
others in that, I tell people,

568
00:34:13,585 –> 00:34:15,295
Start with a blank slate.

569
00:34:15,715 –> 00:34:19,465
You’ve got nothing to do today,
no emails, no meetings, nothing.

570
00:34:19,465 –> 00:34:21,025
Or at least pretend as if you didn’t.

571
00:34:21,535 –> 00:34:28,105
And ask yourself, If I had nothing
to do today, what would I do to

572
00:34:28,105 –> 00:34:30,355
affect my results a month from now?

573
00:34:30,760 –> 00:34:31,570
I’ll repeat that.

574
00:34:31,720 –> 00:34:36,639
If I had nothing to do today, what would I
do to affect my results a month from now?

575
00:34:37,030 –> 00:34:40,780
Well, that salespeople would make some
sales calls, the manager would do some

576
00:34:40,780 –> 00:34:45,400
performance reviews, or introduce that,
uh, get that new, uh, project moving.

577
00:34:45,820 –> 00:34:48,820
Uh, the engineer would be doing
some design work and so on.

578
00:34:49,060 –> 00:34:53,530
Okay, those are things that affect
your long-term goals and so those

579
00:34:53,530 –> 00:34:55,420
are your highest priority activities.

580
00:34:55,720 –> 00:34:59,270
And you should write down the things
you can actually complete today.

581
00:34:59,660 –> 00:35:01,820
For a manager who wants to
hire a new employee, you

582
00:35:01,820 –> 00:35:03,080
can’t do all that in one day.

583
00:35:03,710 –> 00:35:07,880
But you can, you know, review the, the
job description, or you can put it up on

584
00:35:07,880 –> 00:35:09,980
a website, or you can do some interviews.

585
00:35:10,220 –> 00:35:12,080
So, what can I complete today?

586
00:35:12,380 –> 00:35:15,140
And then at the end of the day, you
can check those off and say, Yep,

587
00:35:15,555 –> 00:35:16,455
got those done.

588
00:35:16,995 –> 00:35:20,685
So that, those are your highest
priority activities, the things that

589
00:35:20,685 –> 00:35:22,305
affect your results a month from now.

590
00:35:23,055 –> 00:35:28,005
Put those first on your to-do list
and then fill in all the other stuff.

591
00:35:28,515 –> 00:35:31,065
And make time for the priorities first.

592
00:35:31,465 –> 00:35:34,345
Maybe that’s early in the morning,
maybe a block off time during

593
00:35:34,345 –> 00:35:37,405
the day between eleven and one
o’clock, or something like that.

594
00:35:37,735 –> 00:35:40,195
Those are gonna be 20% of
your time, we know that.

595
00:35:40,465 –> 00:35:43,375
So you’ve gotta make sure that
that time is available to do

596
00:35:43,375 –> 00:35:47,155
those high priority tasks and let
the other stuff fill in later.

597
00:35:47,185 –> 00:35:48,505
So start with those first.

598
00:35:48,745 –> 00:35:53,215
That’s my tip for how to organize
yourself and do a to-do list

599
00:35:53,215 –> 00:35:56,425
when you’re overwhelmed by all
these tasks that come your way.

600
00:35:58,435 –> 00:36:02,545
Mark, you, you’ve got people excited.

601
00:36:02,545 –> 00:36:04,885
You’re loaded with information.

602
00:36:05,125 –> 00:36:11,785
So could you tell people how to get ahold
of you and how they can work with you?

603
00:36:13,405 –> 00:36:16,255
As I said, uh, or you said,
the simplest way is through

604
00:36:16,255 –> 00:36:19,005
my website, getmoredone.com.

605
00:36:19,525 –> 00:36:21,595
So it’s mark@getmoredone.com.

606
00:36:21,595 –> 00:36:22,795
Just remember, get more done.

607
00:36:22,795 –> 00:36:25,120
There’s a, there’s a, you
know, contact page there.

608
00:36:25,540 –> 00:36:31,105
And, uh, lately I’ve been saying, If
somebody wanted just a consultation,

609
00:36:31,165 –> 00:36:34,855
I’m not a coach as such, but if
somebody wanted a quick coaching

610
00:36:34,855 –> 00:36:38,125
session, I’ll do that pro bono,
uh, just to help people out.

611
00:36:38,395 –> 00:36:41,335
And then if you think you wanna
use the Time Quarter device, I’m

612
00:36:41,335 –> 00:36:45,645
actually doing, sponsoring a study
of female women executives who are

613
00:36:45,645 –> 00:36:47,755
managing large departments and so on.

614
00:36:48,115 –> 00:36:51,175
And they don’t pay for that
because I wanna present that

615
00:36:51,175 –> 00:36:53,215
data at an upcoming conference.

616
00:36:53,425 –> 00:36:55,645
So I’m looking for
senior female executives.

617
00:36:55,990 –> 00:36:59,680
Someone else just wants a phone call,
happy to share some tips with you in a

618
00:36:59,680 –> 00:37:04,210
quick coaching session without turning on
the meter and the, and the dollar sign and

619
00:37:04,210 –> 00:37:06,190
not trying to upsell you on anything else.

620
00:37:06,415 –> 00:37:10,380
I’m just passionate about doing this stuff
and wanna help people, uh, where I can.

621
00:37:11,310 –> 00:37:13,900
And if somebody wants to hire
me after that, then they can.

622
00:37:14,515 –> 00:37:17,785
You can see that you’re passionate
about what you do, Mark.

623
00:37:17,785 –> 00:37:24,265
And that’s always someone that you should
be thrilled to get ahold of and work with.

624
00:37:24,325 –> 00:37:29,575
So I appreciate what you do and I
surely appreciate you sharing it

625
00:37:29,575 –> 00:37:31,885
here today with us on the podcast.

626
00:37:32,965 –> 00:37:33,985
Great speaking with you, Ed.

627
00:37:37,195 –> 00:37:38,845
Thank you for joining us today.

628
00:37:39,505 –> 00:37:45,745
If you found this podcast enlightening,
entertaining, educational in any way,

629
00:37:46,495 –> 00:37:52,935
please share, like, subscribe, and join
us right back here next week for another

630
00:37:52,935 –> 00:37:56,325
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.

631
00:37:56,625 –> 00:38:02,175
I’m Ed Watters, your host, enjoy
your afternoon wherever you might be.