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Award winning truth cuts through the haze,

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confronts the darkness
in these end times days.

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A single match struck against the fear,
hope ignites, drawing redemption near.

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Can you feel the trembling in the ground?

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A buried heartbeat

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making sound.

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We all live in Dead America, but the
dawn’s creeping across the panorama.

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This dead awakens, change
begins, from broken places hope

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unpins.

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Yeah, we all live in Dead America.

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One healing spark starts the pyre,
burning brighter, taking it higher.

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Today, we’re speaking with Mr. Jay.

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He is a betrayal trauma practitioner,
he’s an author, got a couple books out.

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Mr. Jay, could you please
introduce yourself?

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Let people know just a little
more about you, please.

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Well, certainly, and thank
you so much for, um, giving me

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this, this time and opportunity.

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Um, I am Mr. Jay.

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Uh, I am a betrayal trauma practitioner,
uh, I’m also a father and, um, uh,

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a family man and many other things.

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Um, but as far as, uh, my, my field, what
I do is I help people help themselves on

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the journey from betrayal to breakthrough.

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Uh, so as a betrayal trauma practitioner,
a lot of people assume all trauma’s the

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same, and all trauma is not the same.

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Betrayal trauma is unlike any other
trauma so it’s a niche within a niche.

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It’s a very tough field, it’s an emotional
field, but it’s, it’s fascinating as well.

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Um, so I, I, some people, uh, fall into
a career, uh, I believe this actually

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found me ’cause I did not wake up one day
and say, Hey, I wanna go into this field.

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I, uh, it was, it was, it, it happened
after a, a, a death in my family where I

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experienced, uh, a panic attack actually.

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And when I did a lot of introspection
and self-reflection on what in the world

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was a panic attack, ’cause I’ve heard
of panic attacks before, uh, I’ve worked

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with clients with panic attacks, but
never experienced one, and boy, there

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is no substitute for experience so, um,
it was in that that I found, you know,

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trauma, unhealed trauma, developmental
trauma, childhood trauma, which led

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me into the field of betrayal trauma.

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Which is a fascinating field, like I said.

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Yeah, it, it’s interesting.

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Betrayal, it happens all
the time in our world.

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And a lot of us are just oblivious
to that, and we don’t recognize how

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much of it actually exists in just our
everyday day-to-day doings with people.

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We are betraying and we
are betrayed all the time.

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So like you said, it’s not just
a marriage, it’s your world.

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You’re living in a world of betrayal.

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And what caught my eye and interested
me the most was you said your betrayal

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started as a child, and that is so key
to, I think it’s the starting point of

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fixing yourself when you understand that.

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Could you talk to us a little
bit about that, please?

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Listen, a hundred percent.

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Let me first, um, uh, respond to what
you just said by saying this, um,

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betrayal trauma has to include some
type of dependency or reliance upon.

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So, um, I, I couldn’t give
you betrayal trauma right now.

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Well, maybe if I stood you up on this
interview, although even then I probably

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wouldn’t have given you betrayal trauma.

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Betrayal trauma has to come with a
reliance or a dependency on, so you could

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have betrayal trauma from a parent ’cause
you rely on them, you depend on them.

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You could have betrayal trauma
from, say, a boss or a job

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because you rely on that boss,

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you rely on that job to feed your family.

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You could have betrayal trauma,
certainly, from a spouse, you

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know, a, a significant other.

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You could have betrayal trauma from, say,
yourself, your body, or your creator if

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you believe in, you know, a higher power.

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Um, ’cause I work with many people who
say, Mr. Jay, I was very healthy, and

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I exercised, and I meditated, and I
was still diagnosed with A, B, and C.

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Um, an incurable disease or stage four
this and that so I feel like my creator

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betrayed me or my body betrayed me.

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So as long as there’s a
dependency or reliance upon.

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Now here’s the deal, going
back to what you said,

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uh, for the sake of this interview,
if you don’t mind, I wanna use the

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example of, you know, a, a, the majority
of people that I work with, which is

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spousal infidelity, there’s all kinds
of different betrayals, but spousal

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infidelity is one of the big betrayals.

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And what I say all the time is, and
this is my own findings, so you’re

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not gonna find this in any research.

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These are my own findings.

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What I say all the time is that when we
deal with a spousal betrayal, the focus

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of healing is so much on the spouse,
the, the partner, the significant

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other, but really the more so than not,
the first harm is our first betrayal.

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Because betrayal trauma hits us
at our core insecurity, our core

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insecurities often start in childhood.

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Getting back to what you just said.

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So a lot of people are like, Well, he
or she needs to do this and he or she

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needs to do that ’cause they betrayed me.

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And they’re absolutely right,
he and she needs to do all this.

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However, he or she can’t heal
your attachment, uh, uh, your

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identity now that’s fragmented.

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Only you can do that.

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So he or she absolutely has their
own job to do, and a big job they

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have, and a consistent job they have.

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But if you think you’re gonna
sit back, enjoy a cigarette while

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they’re doing all the work, oh,
no, no, because your identity was

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broken, and only you can fix that.

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Yeah, that’s, that’s huge.

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And, you know, it goes along
with another thing you talk

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about is, uh, betrayal blindness.

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Because I, I really, you know, I’ve
been a victim of this betrayal,

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I’ve put it out, I’ve received it.

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And I, I’m talking about
marital infidelities.

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And this is one of the worst in my
personal opinion because it strikes

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right to the heart of where you live
and when you can’t trust the one that

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you love the most, what can you trust?

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And this feeling is deep and it’s
rooted in this visceral hate of whatever

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happened and sometimes you can’t even
grasp what has happened in that moment.

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So getting over that, it, you really
need to understand about the betrayal

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blindness in a way to be aware of
what you’ve actually went through.

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Now, I can actually say that my wife
was very unaware in many ways when

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certain betrayals were happening or
she was blinded by these warning signs.

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So I, I’d like to hear a little more
from you about betrayal blindness.

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Certainly.

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Uh, and lemme just say this, uh,
once, uh, before I just give you,

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uh, some information on that.

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One of the main things that betrayal
blindness, um, can help us with, because

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there’s a lot of damage that betrayal
blindness actually does, believe it

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or not, even though it’s a natural,
normal, healthy part of our biological

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makeup, it could, it actually does
some damage and I’ll get into that.

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One of the main things, once we
understand what uh, uh, betrayal

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blindness is, is that we, now
we don’t personalize it so much.

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And, you know, so let
me, I’ll give you that.

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So for instance, betrayal Blindness is
this, it’s a part of our, uh, um, nervous

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system, the fight, flight, freeze.

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And what it does is it’s our
body’s natural way of only, um,

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it, it’s our brain’s main job.

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Our brain’s main job is to
keep us safe, that’s it.

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Keep us safe, keep us alive, keep us safe.

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So what happens is that when we find
out certain things in our relationship,

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let’s just see, you know, say, okay, we
see some blonde hair in our partner’s

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car, we see, you know, um, some
lipstick in the glove compartment, we

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see, um, our wife having coffee with
her boss at, you know, a coffee shop.

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What we have a tendency to do, because
betrayal blindness kicks in and we

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start explaining away things, Oh,
my wife is just so nice and kind.

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She’s probably helping her boss ’cause
he’s going through a hard marriage.

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Oh, uh, my husband is so nice.

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He probably gave his secretary a ride
home, that’s why there’s hair in his car.

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So betrayal blindness kicks
in, um, because betrayal

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blindness wants to keep us safe.

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The problem with betrayal blindness
is that when reality hits in, kicks

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in, and now we, uh, the bomb happens,
which is called D-Day, discovery

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day, and now there’s no denying it.

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This is what’s going
on in our marriage now.

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We’re trying to heal so many things
that have been devastated and broken

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while we are so disattached to ourself
because we allowed betrayal blindness

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to come in and excuse things away.

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And now this is where we hear a lot
of people say, How could I be so dumb?

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How could I be so stupid?

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How could I be so foolish?

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It was right in front of me.

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You’re not dumb, you’re not
foolish, you’re not stupid.

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Betrayal blindness kicked in, your
body did what it did naturally.

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So now you’re trying to heal whatever
it is you gotta heal, whether it’s

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yourself, your relationship, your
marriage, your broken identity,

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your attachment, everything.

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And I’ll tell you something, you said
something before, you said this is

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one of the most heartbreaking you, I
forgot what word you used, one of the

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most devastating, hurtful traumas.

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Ed, I can’t tell you how many times
I’ve worked with people who say,

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Mr. Jay, I’ve lost children and
I’ve been betrayed by my spouse.

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Being betrayed by my spouse hurts more.

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So it is, it, it is, it is a
pain unlike any other pain.

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And I’m gonna tell you something, now
that we’re on this topic, betrayal

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trauma is different from other
traumas for a couple key reasons.

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Number one, because of
the secrecy of it all.

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So if you lose a child or if you lose
a parent, that can be traumatic, but

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you’re gonna have your boss giving you
some, you know, bereavement time, you’re

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gonna have your neighbors and friends
coming over with lasagna and macaroni and

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cheese, you’re gonna have maybe church
members or whomever give you cards.

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Um, it’s, it’s a, it’s a cultural
community grieving process.

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When you discover the person you loved
and trusted, probably more than yourself,

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deceived you, the last thing you wanna
do is get on the phone and say, Hey,

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this is what just happened to me.

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So it’s a very, uh, quiet
process ’cause you feel so alone.

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The next reason why it’s, uh, so painful
and unlike any other traumas is because

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of the personalization of it all.

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If you lose a, a, a parent or
something like that, um, it sucks,

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but it’s a natural part of life.

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Waking up one day and finding numbers
under your mattress of your spouse

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who’s, you know, hiring prostitutes
or going to, you know, escorts,

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that’s not a natural part of life.

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It’s very unnatural.

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And so you personalize it,
What was wrong with me?

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Why wasn’t I enough for my spouse?

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Why wasn’t I, you know, and
then you start, you know,

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Did I gain a lot of weight?

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Is my bust too, too small?

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Uh, is my penis too small?

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Is my breath stinky?

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Is my, we start personalizing
all these things.

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And the last reason why betrayal
trauma’s unlike other uh, traumas

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is because trauma in general affects
the here and now and the future.

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If you have a parent die, that’s sad.

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And it’s gonna affect today and it’s
gonna affect your future, you’re not

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gonna celebrate Thanksgiving with
your parents anymore, Christmas with

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your parents anymore, Mother’s Day.

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With betrayal trauma, it not only
affects the present and the, the

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future, but it also affects the past.

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Because now you can’t look at vacation
pictures the way you used to, now

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you can’t drive down certain streets,
or pass by certain restaurants, or

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even pass by certain hotels, or go to
certain hotels or motels, you know,

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especially if you’re, you’re, the
one you trusted was a part of that.

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So it’s the only trauma that
affects the past as well as

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the present and the future.

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That’s very interesting.

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You know, the, the ripple effect is big
on this and we don’t realize until years

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down the road how it has affected us,
and everything, and everyone around us.

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We act different after
that point of impact.

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So there are ways out of these issues
and the best thing is that inner look,

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and, and you, that interpersonal look
at yourself and finding out why you are

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acting this way and doing these things.

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You have to trace it way back into
childhood and sometimes before childhood

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to understand what is actually happening
and why you are ticking the way you are.

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And then you can readjust and
simulate what you want to be in

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your life, and then you become
it after that simulation period.

213
00:14:57,990 –> 00:15:05,550
So could you talk to us a little bit
about how to overcome the fear, the

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anxiety, the anger, you know, the
resentments, all of these things.

215
00:15:11,925 –> 00:15:17,015
I, for one, have found
the best thing is truth.

216
00:15:17,324 –> 00:15:18,295
What about you?

217
00:15:20,355 –> 00:15:22,155
Well, truth is a good foundation.

218
00:15:22,155 –> 00:15:24,495
It’s a good starter and it
will certainly set you free.

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00:15:24,795 –> 00:15:29,505
You know, one of the things I wanna
say, and I, I, I may stand apart from

220
00:15:29,505 –> 00:15:36,015
other people in my field, I don’t
like to use the word get over or heal

221
00:15:36,435 –> 00:15:42,315
because a big part of betrayal is
grief and I don’t think we ever get

222
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over grief, we simply incorporate it.

223
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So, um, so now, absolutely, you can
incorporate this betrayal in your life.

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And certainly if a person wanted
to, they could even reconcile.

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00:16:01,094 –> 00:16:06,435
As a matter of fact, ninety percent of
my clients, uh, reconcile after this.

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Statistically speaking.

227
00:16:08,025 –> 00:16:10,084
And I know depending on the
study, could be different.

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00:16:10,314 –> 00:16:14,055
But about seventy-five percent of
couples that experienced infidelity

229
00:16:14,204 –> 00:16:18,104
do come back reconciled and they’re
actually stronger and happier than they

230
00:16:18,104 –> 00:16:19,724
were before, to be honest with you.

231
00:16:19,875 –> 00:16:21,944
No, that’s not a recommendation
for somebody to go cheat.

232
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I’m just saying.

233
00:16:23,564 –> 00:16:27,540
Um, um, so, so absolutely.

234
00:16:27,689 –> 00:16:33,329
One of the things that I say all the
time is, uh, if I’m talking to the person

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00:16:33,360 –> 00:16:42,449
who was betrayed, I’ll say, Number one,
you have to take full responsibility for

236
00:16:42,449 –> 00:16:44,939
how you showed up in the relationship.

237
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You have to take full responsibility for
how you showed up in the relationship.

238
00:16:48,959 –> 00:16:54,540
However, you take zero responsibility
in the fact that your partner

239
00:16:54,540 –> 00:16:56,430
went outside of the relationship.

240
00:16:57,270 –> 00:17:00,750
So it’s, it’s, it’s a very
touchy, you know, situation.

241
00:17:01,145 –> 00:17:06,034
Um, now going back to childhood, one
of the things that you really need to

242
00:17:06,034 –> 00:17:11,645
do is you need to, what I was saying
before, understand your core wounds,

243
00:17:11,734 –> 00:17:18,605
start healing your core wounds because
that gives you the capacity to now have

244
00:17:18,605 –> 00:17:21,034
the ability to heal more effectively.

245
00:17:22,024 –> 00:17:26,494
Because if you don’t heal your core
wounds, your core insecurities, then

246
00:17:26,494 –> 00:17:29,915
what you’re doing is you’re putting
concrete over a pothole on a road.

247
00:17:30,780 –> 00:17:33,870
And it only takes so many times
when a big truck runs that over

248
00:17:33,870 –> 00:17:37,500
were the concrete just caves ’cause
the pothole was never dealt with.

249
00:17:37,710 –> 00:17:39,540
You just laid concrete on top of it.

250
00:17:40,200 –> 00:17:44,790
So, you know, I tell the person who
stepped out, listen, you have to

251
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have full honesty, full transparency.

252
00:17:47,670 –> 00:17:51,090
You have to be proactive with, with
where are you going, what are you

253
00:17:51,090 –> 00:17:54,510
doing, you have to keep your promises,
you need to get into some counseling,

254
00:17:54,510 –> 00:17:56,040
coaching, therapy, what have you.

255
00:17:56,190 –> 00:17:59,599
You need to look at some workbooks,
do some reading, watch, uh,

256
00:17:59,599 –> 00:18:00,690
videos, listen to podcasts.

257
00:18:00,870 –> 00:18:02,760
You have a lot of work to do.

258
00:18:03,120 –> 00:18:06,980
However, for the person who was betrayed,
you have just as much work to do.

259
00:18:07,150 –> 00:18:09,715
Slightly different, but
just as much work to do.

260
00:18:09,895 –> 00:18:12,695
You need to, as Rose said, Are you
ready to go back to the Titanic?

261
00:18:12,865 –> 00:18:14,395
You need to go back to the Titanic.

262
00:18:14,395 –> 00:18:17,485
You need to go back and say, Okay,
what were my grandparents like?

263
00:18:17,485 –> 00:18:18,595
How did they raise my parents?

264
00:18:18,595 –> 00:18:19,675
How did my parents raise me?

265
00:18:19,764 –> 00:18:20,725
How did that affect me?

266
00:18:20,725 –> 00:18:21,865
What’s my attachment style?

267
00:18:21,925 –> 00:18:22,885
What’s my love language?

268
00:18:22,885 –> 00:18:23,995
What are my core insecurities?

269
00:18:24,475 –> 00:18:30,534
This is a journey, a long, tedious
journey, but one that’s well worth

270
00:18:30,540 –> 00:18:32,004
it if two people decide to do it.

271
00:18:32,004 –> 00:18:37,875
Because I always say, in this
particular area, The journey is far

272
00:18:37,875 –> 00:18:39,524
more important than the destination.

273
00:18:40,605 –> 00:18:42,105
Oh yeah, for sure.

274
00:18:42,105 –> 00:18:44,925
I, I can, I can really say that’s true.

275
00:18:45,645 –> 00:18:54,735
Uh, I married my wife in 1985, uh, we got
married, or we got together in 83, that’s

276
00:18:54,745 –> 00:18:58,275
forty-two years in the same relationship.

277
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But boy, this relationship, with the
betrayal starting early in it, and

278
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I, I would say within the last three
years, four years, maybe five, is

279
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when we really started overcoming.

280
00:19:17,925 –> 00:19:24,435
And we are now pretty rock
solid, we are upfront with each

281
00:19:24,435 –> 00:19:26,754
other, and that’s very important.

282
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You’ve got to get comfortable,
but in that rock solid way, not

283
00:19:32,385 –> 00:19:35,504
just complacent, comfortable.

284
00:19:35,685 –> 00:19:37,035
And there’s a difference.

285
00:19:37,395 –> 00:19:45,360
I mean, if, if I’m unhappy about things,
I respectfully come forward with it and

286
00:19:45,360 –> 00:19:47,400
say, Hey, we’ve gotta talk about this.

287
00:19:47,400 –> 00:19:47,490
And

288
00:19:49,709 –> 00:19:56,310
now my wife is the same way with
me, and it’s a good feeling when you

289
00:19:56,310 –> 00:20:02,699
can be upfront and comfortable that
it’s okay to address the issues.

290
00:20:03,060 –> 00:20:07,709
So I feel that the quicker that you can
get to that point in your life where

291
00:20:07,715 –> 00:20:15,840
you’re in that comfort zone where you
can just man up and take it per se, I

292
00:20:15,840 –> 00:20:19,770
really think that’s the Goldilocks zone.

293
00:20:19,770 –> 00:20:25,080
And it takes a lot of work like you were
just talking about to get into that zone.

294
00:20:25,530 –> 00:20:26,670
What’s your thoughts on that?

295
00:20:28,665 –> 00:20:29,024
Yeah.

296
00:20:29,024 –> 00:20:33,705
You know, it’s interesting ’cause like I’m
also a wedding officiant and so a lot of

297
00:20:33,705 –> 00:20:36,945
times if a couple comes to me and they’re
like, you know, we wanna get married, we

298
00:20:36,945 –> 00:20:40,455
wanna hire you to, you know, officiate our
wedding, and one of the first questions

299
00:20:40,455 –> 00:20:44,804
I ask them is, you know, Do you want
any, you know, premarital coaching?

300
00:20:45,104 –> 00:20:50,494
Um, and, uh, you know, a lot
of times it’s the young couples

301
00:20:50,494 –> 00:20:51,405
who are like, Oh, no, no.

302
00:20:51,405 –> 00:20:53,294
‘Cause love is gonna get us through.

303
00:20:53,294 –> 00:20:54,314
And I’m like, Yeah, okay.

304
00:20:54,645 –> 00:20:55,544
Here’s another Disney movie.

305
00:20:56,370 –> 00:20:57,720
And here’s the deal, Ed.

306
00:20:57,720 –> 00:21:01,949
So many times I’ll be officiating a
wedding and in my head I’m thinking,

307
00:21:01,949 –> 00:21:07,620
Man, these two are exchanging I do’s and
they don’t even know who the I am is.

308
00:21:08,520 –> 00:21:13,409
And what happens is both parties
come to the wedding table with a huge

309
00:21:13,409 –> 00:21:18,389
Santa Claus sack of their own problems
and issues that when they say, I do,

310
00:21:18,389 –> 00:21:21,780
they’re expecting to say, Okay, here
you go, my love, here’s my problems.

311
00:21:21,780 –> 00:21:22,770
Now you’re gonna fix me.

312
00:21:23,610 –> 00:21:27,179
And the problem is nobody’s
got that intelligence, wisdom,

313
00:21:27,179 –> 00:21:29,040
time, knowledge, nothing.

314
00:21:29,550 –> 00:21:33,389
And they’re also got their own
satchel saying, Okay, well, here’s

315
00:21:33,389 –> 00:21:35,010
my problems, I want you to fix me.

316
00:21:35,970 –> 00:21:40,590
Then you have people that have avoidance
tendencies, people that have been raised

317
00:21:40,590 –> 00:21:44,669
with, you know, not the best examples
of love or relationships, people that

318
00:21:44,669 –> 00:21:46,199
have maybe some developmental issue.

319
00:21:46,379 –> 00:21:50,850
I mean, nine times out of ten, people get
married and they’re ticking time bombs.

320
00:21:52,455 –> 00:21:57,014
And this is why, you know, as much,
this is why I say the journey is

321
00:21:57,014 –> 00:22:03,165
much more than the, than the, uh,
destination, because nobody ever wants

322
00:22:03,165 –> 00:22:05,145
a bomb to go off in their relationship.

323
00:22:05,205 –> 00:22:08,745
It’s, it’s, it’s devastating,
it’s hurtful to the core.

324
00:22:09,600 –> 00:22:15,120
But if it does happen, and two people are
aligned to say, We’re gonna make this,

325
00:22:15,310 –> 00:22:16,860
we’re gonna, we wanna make this work.

326
00:22:16,860 –> 00:22:19,620
I don’t know how we’re going to,
and there’s gonna be times we wanna

327
00:22:19,620 –> 00:22:23,670
give up, and that’s common and
natural, but we wanna make it work.

328
00:22:23,760 –> 00:22:26,820
The people that actually do the work,

329
00:22:28,830 –> 00:22:33,030
they come out with an amazing relationship
that they never thought possible.

330
00:22:33,675 –> 00:22:34,875
They never thought possible.

331
00:22:35,085 –> 00:22:39,945
Because now not only are they dealing with
their marital issues, and dealing with

332
00:22:39,945 –> 00:22:44,805
trust issues, and dealing with betrayal
issues, but finally for once in their

333
00:22:44,805 –> 00:22:49,215
life, they’re going back, like Rose, to
the Titanic and they’re healing their

334
00:22:49,695 –> 00:22:52,365
first traumas that they never dealt with.

335
00:22:52,875 –> 00:22:58,095
Yeah, the inner child is really
important to deal with because you

336
00:22:58,095 –> 00:23:00,135
have to learn to love yourself.

337
00:23:00,645 –> 00:23:05,085
And it’s okay that you’ve
messed up, messing up is like

338
00:23:05,325 –> 00:23:07,875
building blocks of discovery.

339
00:23:08,385 –> 00:23:15,885
And if you’re open to saying, Okay,
let’s not do that again, let’s try

340
00:23:15,885 –> 00:23:21,765
something else, this is when those
building blocks really make sense.

341
00:23:22,995 –> 00:23:26,145
So when we set boundaries, it’s about us.

342
00:23:26,145 –> 00:23:31,665
It’s not about these are your laws,
you’re not gonna do them to me.

343
00:23:32,475 –> 00:23:35,865
We often think that’s what boundaries are.

344
00:23:35,865 –> 00:23:41,325
But boundaries, especially in
a man and wife relationship,

345
00:23:41,595 –> 00:23:43,635
are set for the individual.

346
00:23:44,145 –> 00:23:49,995
And it’s up to the individual
to express themselves and

347
00:23:49,995 –> 00:23:52,005
say, Okay, this is my limit.

348
00:23:52,455 –> 00:23:56,550
Could you please not step over that limit?

349
00:23:56,970 –> 00:24:01,860
And if you have to, can
we be courteous about it?

350
00:24:03,150 –> 00:24:09,570
Setting those boundaries and adhering
to your own boundaries is important.

351
00:24:10,310 –> 00:24:12,000
What’s your thoughts on that?

352
00:24:13,260 –> 00:24:14,639
Yeah, no, a couple things.

353
00:24:14,669 –> 00:24:19,020
First of all, um, well, I just wanna
say, uh, husband, wife, or any marriage

354
00:24:19,020 –> 00:24:22,770
dynamic, ’cause I work with a lot of
different dynamic couples, but absolutely.

355
00:24:22,770 –> 00:24:25,860
And, and you are right that
boundaries are like our religion.

356
00:24:25,889 –> 00:24:29,040
We don’t take on boundaries because
we want to force other people how to

357
00:24:29,040 –> 00:24:33,389
live, we take on boundaries because we,
that’s how we’re gonna decide to live.

358
00:24:34,230 –> 00:24:38,280
Now, if somebody wants to come into
our intimate inner circle, then

359
00:24:38,280 –> 00:24:39,725
they need to respect our boundaries.

360
00:24:40,875 –> 00:24:42,795
Um, but I just wanna say this.

361
00:24:42,825 –> 00:24:47,765
What I find a lot of people, uh, have
a challenge doing is, number one,

362
00:24:48,945 –> 00:24:50,105
what is a boundary?

363
00:24:50,235 –> 00:24:51,705
How do I even create a boundary?

364
00:24:51,735 –> 00:24:56,775
What, so one of the things that I have
clients do is create a values assessment.

365
00:24:56,955 –> 00:24:58,305
What, what do you value?

366
00:24:58,305 –> 00:25:01,455
You can create three things, five
things, seven, ten, six hundred and

367
00:25:01,455 –> 00:25:02,805
forty-seven thousand, doesn’t matter.

368
00:25:03,075 –> 00:25:04,605
What are the things that you value?

369
00:25:04,815 –> 00:25:08,535
Then after you write down the things
that you value, hone them down into,

370
00:25:08,535 –> 00:25:10,515
you know, six or less, whatever.

371
00:25:10,725 –> 00:25:14,265
Then invert those into boundaries,
those are your boundaries.

372
00:25:15,120 –> 00:25:20,250
Now what’s the second most challenging
thing is when somebody violates those

373
00:25:20,250 –> 00:25:22,320
boundaries, how do I enforce them?

374
00:25:23,520 –> 00:25:27,060
So a lot of people are like, Well, my
boundaries get crossed all the time.

375
00:25:27,090 –> 00:25:28,710
Okay, well, we teach
people how to treat us.

376
00:25:28,710 –> 00:25:30,450
So what are you doing to
enforce your boundaries?

377
00:25:30,690 –> 00:25:34,260
I mean, you know, if I say, Don’t come on
my property, and you come on my property

378
00:25:34,260 –> 00:25:37,710
and I look the other way, I just told
you, come onto my property, you know?

379
00:25:38,129 –> 00:25:41,055
Um, so how are you gonna
enforce your boundaries?

380
00:25:41,055 –> 00:25:45,015
And this could be, you know, one time
with, um, a nice little reminder, Hey,

381
00:25:45,015 –> 00:25:47,685
don’t forget I asked you not to come
on my property, remember, you know?

382
00:25:47,805 –> 00:25:50,895
I’m using this as an example ’cause I
live in the most amazing neighborhood

383
00:25:51,075 –> 00:25:52,245
with the most awesome neighbors.

384
00:25:52,245 –> 00:25:55,305
Anyways, um, the second
thing could be, you know, Hey

385
00:25:55,305 –> 00:25:56,535
listen, we need to have a chat.

386
00:25:56,535 –> 00:25:59,175
I asked you not to come on
my property and I feel very

387
00:25:59,175 –> 00:26:00,245
disrespected, you know, whatever.

388
00:26:00,495 –> 00:26:03,415
The next thing is maybe you need to put
a fence up or the next time call the law

389
00:26:03,465 –> 00:26:05,085
or the next time, you know, whatever.

390
00:26:05,265 –> 00:26:09,580
So enforcing boundaries, I think
people have a hard time with.

391
00:26:10,149 –> 00:26:12,280
Um, but absolutely.

392
00:26:12,490 –> 00:26:17,955
And the other thing too is
understanding who you are, loving

393
00:26:17,955 –> 00:26:24,885
yourself, respecting yourself, knowing
yourself, so you can have the, um, the

394
00:26:24,885 –> 00:26:27,675
constitution to enforce boundaries.

395
00:26:28,125 –> 00:26:32,085
So all this plays and it’s a
lot of work, it’s a lot of work.

396
00:26:32,085 –> 00:26:36,235
And a lot of this does come back to,
unfortunately, you know, I, I’m not

397
00:26:36,235 –> 00:26:38,574
one of these people that say everything
goes back to childhood, but really

398
00:26:38,574 –> 00:26:39,925
in a lot of ways, a lot of it does.

399
00:26:40,314 –> 00:26:43,495
Because we come into this world
for the most part on a clean slate,

400
00:26:43,524 –> 00:26:45,385
not exactly, but for the most part.

401
00:26:45,985 –> 00:26:52,185
And we learned a lot of stuff that
our damaged parents taught us who

402
00:26:52,185 –> 00:26:55,455
learned from their damaged generation
parents, you know, and so on.

403
00:26:56,655 –> 00:27:00,524
However, if we don’t, if we
don’t, I always say, If we don’t

404
00:27:00,645 –> 00:27:04,635
transform our trauma, we’re
simply gonna transfer our trauma.

405
00:27:04,995 –> 00:27:07,635
And that’s one of the things that we
have to be careful is, about, ’cause

406
00:27:07,635 –> 00:27:11,175
now I have young kids and I was born
and raised with a lot of trauma.

407
00:27:11,445 –> 00:27:14,325
And if I don’t transform my
trauma, I’m simply just gonna

408
00:27:14,325 –> 00:27:15,825
transfer it to the next generation.

409
00:27:16,725 –> 00:27:17,295
That’s right.

410
00:27:17,715 –> 00:27:24,045
You know, and that’s taking agency and,
and that is key to a successful life.

411
00:27:24,525 –> 00:27:29,235
To be happy in life, you have
to have agency over your life.

412
00:27:29,445 –> 00:27:32,895
That means controlling and
setting those boundaries.

413
00:27:33,285 –> 00:27:38,205
It’s, it’s easy once you learn how to
do it, but very difficult getting there.

414
00:27:38,595 –> 00:27:46,139
And sometimes it’s, it’s easier
to ask somebody that’s been there

415
00:27:46,139 –> 00:27:51,570
for some help, some guidance, some
wisdom, and then practice at it.

416
00:27:51,629 –> 00:27:56,190
Because I can tell you from experience
you’re gonna try, you’re gonna fail,

417
00:27:56,460 –> 00:28:03,300
and you’ve got to figure out what’s
gonna stick for you, your relationship.

418
00:28:03,690 –> 00:28:07,770
Because every life is unique,
it’s special, and you should

419
00:28:07,770 –> 00:28:09,990
be able to apply yourself.

420
00:28:11,175 –> 00:28:17,115
To loving yourself enough to say,
This is what I want for myself.

421
00:28:17,625 –> 00:28:20,385
And I, I really think
that’s very important.

422
00:28:20,955 –> 00:28:28,305
Is there anything that we should
cover that you find would be

423
00:28:28,305 –> 00:28:30,375
helpful to our discussion today?

424
00:28:31,355 –> 00:28:31,685
Wow.

425
00:28:31,725 –> 00:28:33,195
Oh my gosh, do you have days?

426
00:28:33,255 –> 00:28:33,945
Absolutely.

427
00:28:34,245 –> 00:28:38,669
But one of the things I just wanna say
is, We throw around the terms like love

428
00:28:38,669 –> 00:28:42,389
and forgiveness and all this other stuff,
which is fine, great and dandy, but I

429
00:28:42,389 –> 00:28:46,320
don’t even think a lot of people have
defined what that is for themselves.

430
00:28:46,919 –> 00:28:51,135
So, you know, like for instance,
all, the majority of couples

431
00:28:51,195 –> 00:28:52,575
all day long, Love you.

432
00:28:52,605 –> 00:28:53,150
Love you too.

433
00:28:53,565 –> 00:28:54,105
Love you.

434
00:28:54,135 –> 00:28:54,615
Love you too.

435
00:28:54,945 –> 00:28:56,655
What the, what does that mean to you?

436
00:28:56,655 –> 00:28:57,885
What does love mean to you?

437
00:28:58,065 –> 00:29:02,175
You know, um, it would be really
nice to define that because what

438
00:29:02,175 –> 00:29:05,355
love means to you might not mean
the same thing to your significant

439
00:29:05,355 –> 00:29:06,825
other, your spouse, your partner.

440
00:29:07,005 –> 00:29:09,105
And so you wanna be on
the same page with that.

441
00:29:09,105 –> 00:29:11,775
And, and not that you have to be
on the same page, but that you

442
00:29:11,775 –> 00:29:14,505
can both understand what do you
mean when you say I love you?

443
00:29:15,135 –> 00:29:16,455
Same thing with forgiveness.

444
00:29:17,054 –> 00:29:20,534
You know, I can’t tell you how many
times I’m asking my clients Well,

445
00:29:20,715 –> 00:29:23,415
because they’ll say, Well, I forgive
you, or they need to forgive me.

446
00:29:23,625 –> 00:29:25,814
Okay, first of all, what
does forgiveness mean?

447
00:29:25,844 –> 00:29:28,905
Because you can’t, it, well, I don’t
wanna say you can’t, but it’s very hard

448
00:29:28,905 –> 00:29:30,794
to give away what you don’t have yourself.

449
00:29:31,155 –> 00:29:33,945
So, number one, can
you define forgiveness?

450
00:29:34,784 –> 00:29:39,165
And if you’re gonna use words like let
go or forgive, then tell me how you’re

451
00:29:39,165 –> 00:29:40,695
about to go through that process.

452
00:29:41,115 –> 00:29:44,415
So how do you, what is your
definition of forgiveness, number one.

453
00:29:44,534 –> 00:29:47,594
And before you even think you have
the right to give it to somebody

454
00:29:47,594 –> 00:29:49,455
else, have you given it to yourself?

455
00:29:50,925 –> 00:29:55,395
Because it’s, again, it’s very challenging
to give to, uh, listen, if I say, Ed, can,

456
00:29:55,395 –> 00:29:57,195
can, can I have ten dollars right now?

457
00:29:57,195 –> 00:29:59,745
But you only have five in your
pocket, you can’t give me ten

458
00:29:59,745 –> 00:30:01,125
dollars as much as you might want to.

459
00:30:01,365 –> 00:30:01,909
You only have five.

460
00:30:02,850 –> 00:30:05,940
So, you know, if somebody says, you
know, I wanna forgive certain people,

461
00:30:06,090 –> 00:30:07,860
you gotta have forgiveness within you.

462
00:30:08,040 –> 00:30:11,310
And it starts with self-forgiveness,
then you can give it to others.

463
00:30:11,429 –> 00:30:13,980
Which I will say too, a lot of people
have a problem with forgiveness.

464
00:30:13,980 –> 00:30:14,879
And let me just say this,

465
00:30:16,889 –> 00:30:19,620
Everybody’s definition of forgiveness
is different, but I think forgiveness

466
00:30:19,620 –> 00:30:21,360
is very helpful and necessary.

467
00:30:21,419 –> 00:30:23,399
You’ll find other mental health
professionals that say it’s

468
00:30:23,399 –> 00:30:24,840
unnecessary, that’s fine.

469
00:30:26,070 –> 00:30:31,350
I think it’s necessary because it
cuts the emotional tie you have with

470
00:30:31,350 –> 00:30:34,320
that person as far as the activity.

471
00:30:34,320 –> 00:30:41,580
So for instance, if, um, if I, if I come
to your house and I take five hundred

472
00:30:41,580 –> 00:30:43,110
dollars outta your dresser drawer, right?

473
00:30:44,010 –> 00:30:47,250
Um, and you say, Well, Mr.
Jay I need my money back.

474
00:30:47,430 –> 00:30:48,930
No, I’m not gonna give
you your money back.

475
00:30:49,230 –> 00:30:49,530
I’m not.

476
00:30:49,530 –> 00:30:51,030
Mr. Jay I really need my money.

477
00:30:51,060 –> 00:30:51,840
No, no, no.

478
00:30:52,230 –> 00:30:55,845
After a while you might
say, Okay, you know what?

479
00:30:55,845 –> 00:30:57,345
I’m, I’m going to forgive you.

480
00:30:57,405 –> 00:30:59,115
Well, first of all, what does that mean?

481
00:30:59,504 –> 00:31:05,264
Because now when you think
of me taking your money, is

482
00:31:05,264 –> 00:31:06,855
there a pang in your stomach?

483
00:31:06,855 –> 00:31:08,685
And if there is, that’s not forgiveness.

484
00:31:08,835 –> 00:31:10,905
So you have to cut that emotional tie.

485
00:31:11,054 –> 00:31:17,804
Now on the topic of forgiveness,
you have to forgive the fact, and

486
00:31:17,804 –> 00:31:19,784
then you have to forgive the impact.

487
00:31:20,460 –> 00:31:21,660
So let me explain that.

488
00:31:21,900 –> 00:31:23,880
Let’s just say I come into your
house and I take five hundred dollars

489
00:31:23,880 –> 00:31:24,930
outta your dresser drawer, right?

490
00:31:25,260 –> 00:31:28,530
Okay, well, now you’re like, Well,
Mr. Jay, I can’t, I can’t feed

491
00:31:28,530 –> 00:31:31,650
my kids now for a couple of weeks
’cause that was my grocery money.

492
00:31:31,890 –> 00:31:32,220
Okay?

493
00:31:32,430 –> 00:31:35,310
But then after a couple of weeks,
you are like, you know what?

494
00:31:35,520 –> 00:31:36,390
We survived.

495
00:31:36,390 –> 00:31:38,430
We went to church, we got some free food.

496
00:31:38,460 –> 00:31:39,810
My family stepped in, whatever.

497
00:31:40,050 –> 00:31:44,610
I wanna learn how to, um, forgive Mr. Jay
because every time I think about this,

498
00:31:44,610 –> 00:31:47,730
I get very angry and I deserve peace.

499
00:31:48,525 –> 00:31:49,725
Forgiveness is I deserve peace.

500
00:31:50,055 –> 00:31:54,465
Well, then what happens is that now
you have to borrow your phone bill

501
00:31:54,555 –> 00:31:57,825
to pay your cable, and then you have
to borrow your cable bill to pay

502
00:31:57,825 –> 00:32:00,975
your car, and then you have to borrow
your car bill to pay your mortgage.

503
00:32:01,185 –> 00:32:04,875
And now things are getting shut
off and now you’re thinking about

504
00:32:04,875 –> 00:32:06,465
this and you’re livid with me.

505
00:32:06,705 –> 00:32:09,525
You are like, I can’t believe
that Mr. Jay did that to me.

506
00:32:09,735 –> 00:32:12,915
And then you might be thinking, Well,
wait a minute, I thought I forgave him.

507
00:32:13,095 –> 00:32:13,965
Well, here’s the deal.

508
00:32:14,065 –> 00:32:18,585
You forgave the fact but you still
have to continually forgive the impact.

509
00:32:19,065 –> 00:32:21,675
So forgiveness is not a one and
done and I think a lot of people

510
00:32:21,675 –> 00:32:22,995
get confused with that as well.

511
00:32:23,595 –> 00:32:27,195
Uh, I find that interesting,
that aspect there.

512
00:32:27,585 –> 00:32:31,485
You know, and I have this
analogy, The Muddy Shoe Life.

513
00:32:31,935 –> 00:32:37,575
People, places, and things,
that’s the mud on a muddy trail.

514
00:32:37,575 –> 00:32:42,675
And we’re a muddy shoe walking
down the muddy trail of life.

515
00:32:43,245 –> 00:32:48,135
People, places, and things, they
can get very heavy, like clay, mud.

516
00:32:48,495 –> 00:32:51,825
So you’ve got variations
of mud in your life.

517
00:32:53,700 –> 00:32:55,590
How much mud can you pack?

518
00:32:56,220 –> 00:33:03,600
So my suggestion is find the first rock
and scrape as much of that heavy mud

519
00:33:03,600 –> 00:33:05,880
off because it’s gonna tire you out.

520
00:33:06,540 –> 00:33:11,280
And, and you’ve got to make
it to the end of your life.

521
00:33:11,580 –> 00:33:18,870
And many people don’t recognize that
they are mud and if, if you don’t

522
00:33:18,870 –> 00:33:22,784
scrape them off, maybe they never will.

523
00:33:23,355 –> 00:33:29,925
So that, that means they’re still on
the trail, there’s other people coming

524
00:33:29,925 –> 00:33:37,155
along, maybe we’ll meet those people down
the trail of life a little further down,

525
00:33:37,155 –> 00:33:40,395
and they won’t be so heavy of a mud.

526
00:33:40,455 –> 00:33:43,575
Maybe they’ll get wet along the way.

527
00:33:44,024 –> 00:33:56,445
So I always try to think about things
in a light of possibility of good

528
00:33:56,445 –> 00:34:00,825
and a prosperity outlook of things.

529
00:34:00,825 –> 00:34:05,715
Even though you might be in the
dark, you’ve got to see yourself in

530
00:34:05,715 –> 00:34:09,435
the light to actually get anywhere.

531
00:34:10,155 –> 00:34:18,165
So how do we find the light to turn
on to get rid of the heavy mud?

532
00:34:20,054 –> 00:34:20,475
Yeah.

533
00:34:20,745 –> 00:34:21,104
Yeah.

534
00:34:21,375 –> 00:34:26,654
Well, you know, I think that comes
down to, um, finding, one of the

535
00:34:26,714 –> 00:34:28,904
main things, finding purpose.

536
00:34:29,804 –> 00:34:35,760
And I think a lot of times people try to
find their purpose from their passion and

537
00:34:37,710 –> 00:34:40,260
really we find our purpose from our pain.

538
00:34:42,030 –> 00:34:45,480
So, and I’m laughing and I don’t
mean to laugh, but like a lot of time

539
00:34:45,480 –> 00:34:47,550
people are like, Oh, I love animals.

540
00:34:47,550 –> 00:34:49,980
I, I just love animals, I
wanna work with animals.

541
00:34:50,070 –> 00:34:52,560
And that will give us some, some
peace, and that will give us some

542
00:34:52,560 –> 00:34:56,880
relief, and that will give us some
joy, whatever, um, uh, but when

543
00:34:56,880 –> 00:34:58,320
you, and that will give us passion.

544
00:34:58,710 –> 00:35:02,880
But when you wanna step into your
purpose, that’s, that’s, we find

545
00:35:02,880 –> 00:35:04,259
our purpose through our pain.

546
00:35:04,529 –> 00:35:06,150
And, but here’s the deal, Ed.

547
00:35:06,990 –> 00:35:11,730
Listen, and I get it, I’m human too,
people don’t wanna sit in their pain.

548
00:35:12,359 –> 00:35:15,960
We, we’re humans, we wanna run as
far away from pain as possible.

549
00:35:16,470 –> 00:35:20,460
The problem is, is the, is
the issues are in the tissues.

550
00:35:20,790 –> 00:35:26,100
And if we don’t specifically tell
ourselves I have to lower myself into

551
00:35:26,100 –> 00:35:32,355
the cave and I have to fight my demons
because it’s, when I come out of that

552
00:35:32,355 –> 00:35:37,875
cave, I now am a completely different
person who knows my strengths, my

553
00:35:37,875 –> 00:35:40,665
weaknesses, my passions, my pain.

554
00:35:41,235 –> 00:35:46,815
And in that, now you can become
an authentic, uh, person to pursue

555
00:35:46,964 –> 00:35:48,060
what life should be for you.

556
00:35:49,065 –> 00:35:52,910
You, you know, Mr. Jay, I really
enjoy what you’re doing out there.

557
00:35:52,910 –> 00:35:57,770
You’re providing a lot of great
content for people to consume

558
00:35:57,770 –> 00:36:00,170
and get ahead in life, per se.

559
00:36:00,800 –> 00:36:05,120
They need to have somebody
like you to look onto.

560
00:36:05,120 –> 00:36:07,490
How can people connect with you?

561
00:36:08,490 –> 00:36:12,990
Um, well, I have the easiest website,
I think, in the face of the earth.

562
00:36:12,990 –> 00:36:14,920
It’s, uh, mrjrelationshipcoach.com.

563
00:36:16,530 –> 00:36:21,150
However, even if people never want to hear
my voice again, see my face, know nothing

564
00:36:21,150 –> 00:36:25,830
about me, I still have a lot of great
free resources on my website from lots of

565
00:36:25,830 –> 00:36:28,900
interviews, lots of information, lots of,
so again, it’s mrjrelationshipcoach.com.

566
00:36:31,260 –> 00:36:32,940
Just come for the free resources.

567
00:36:32,940 –> 00:36:35,460
If you decide you want to talk to
me, wonderful, great and dandy.

568
00:36:35,460 –> 00:36:42,575
But, um, I stepped into my purpose in
life because I didn’t wanna die and

569
00:36:42,575 –> 00:36:46,475
have everything that I went through
and the lessons I learned die with me.

570
00:36:46,654 –> 00:36:48,605
So please learn from my mistakes.

571
00:36:50,194 –> 00:36:53,674
That’s the best gold right
there of the interview.

572
00:36:54,455 –> 00:36:58,625
Pass it on and help people
climb the mountain of life.

573
00:36:58,985 –> 00:37:02,674
I love what you’re doing and thank
you for sharing it here today.

574
00:37:03,390 –> 00:37:03,990
Thank you, Ed.

575
00:37:23,519 –> 00:37:30,050
Woke up with the weight of that
desert sand, and the knife left

576
00:37:30,050 –> 00:37:32,720
buried deep inside my hand.

577
00:37:33,170 –> 00:37:36,560
By a friend who wore a
smile like camouflage.

578
00:37:36,940 –> 00:37:39,790
Yeah, some battles leave
a deeper kind of scar.

579
00:37:41,029 –> 00:37:46,615
Learned the silence after trust
just falls apart, felt the darkness

580
00:37:46,620 –> 00:37:48,470
trying to swallow up my heart.

581
00:37:49,520 –> 00:37:54,970
Ain’t no uniform could shield
me from that pain, just a hollow

582
00:37:54,970 –> 00:38:06,310
echo left out in the rain.

583
00:38:06,310 –> 00:38:11,369
Then one dawn I dropped the knife,
felt the sun warm my shaking hands,

584
00:38:11,369 –> 00:38:15,069
heard a whisper in the wind child,
you’re still part of the plan.

585
00:38:15,069 –> 00:38:21,450
So I rose, oh, I rose from the
valley where the bitter wind blows.

586
00:38:21,450 –> 00:38:27,670
Took the pieces, every tear, every ache,
built a purpose from each heartbreak.

587
00:38:28,240 –> 00:38:33,589
Now I stand, not just surviving, I
teach, showing others how to reach.

588
00:38:33,849 –> 00:38:37,889
From broken to breakthrough,
yeah, that’s the truth,

589
00:38:40,419 –> 00:38:46,669
even broken crayons can
make masterpieces too.

590
00:38:50,789 –> 00:38:56,715
Pages filled with lessons learned
the hardest way, turned the pain

591
00:38:56,715 –> 00:38:58,405
into the words I need to say.

592
00:38:58,405 –> 00:39:22,975
To the soldier lost, the lover
feeling low, to the soul just

593
00:39:22,975 –> 00:39:23,485
wandering which way to go.

594
00:39:23,485 –> 00:39:24,615
Cause I rose, oh, I rose, from the
valley where the bitter wind blows.

595
00:39:24,615 –> 00:39:27,385
Took the pieces, every tear, every ache,
built a purpose from each heartbreak.

596
00:39:27,385 –> 00:39:31,425
Now I stand, not just surviving, I
teach, showing others how to reach.

597
00:39:31,695 –> 00:39:35,785
From broken to breakthrough,
yeah, that’s the truth,

598
00:39:38,325 –> 00:39:39,985
even broken crayons can make

599
00:39:43,515 –> 00:39:43,914
masterpieces too.

600
00:39:43,914 –> 00:39:51,384
Hear me now, you ain’t defined by
what went wrong, that same hurt

601
00:39:51,384 –> 00:39:52,640
you carry, it can make you strong.

602
00:39:53,500 –> 00:40:01,679
Let me show you how the ashes feed
the ground, where the strongest,

603
00:40:02,250 –> 00:40:02,660
brightest futures can be found.

604
00:40:02,660 –> 00:40:04,100
So you rise, oh, you’ll rise.

605
00:40:04,100 –> 00:40:04,935
Leave the valley

606
00:40:06,965 –> 00:40:14,365
where the bitter wind blows, Take the
pieces, every tear, every ache, build

607
00:40:14,365 –> 00:40:14,765
your purpose from each heartbreak.

608
00:40:14,765 –> 00:40:23,385
Stand up tall, start surviving, then
teach, show the world what you can reach.

609
00:40:23,385 –> 00:40:25,195
From

610
00:40:28,975 –> 00:40:29,095
broken

611
00:40:43,175 –> 00:40:51,924
to breakthrough, even broken
crayons can make masterpieces too.

612
00:40:51,924 –> 00:41:01,764
Masterpieces, yeah, broken crayons color
bright, turning darkness into light.

613
00:41:01,764 –> 00:41:06,768
Masterpiece, yeah, just
look at what you are.