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But, uh, a true narcissist definitely
has multiple, you know, internal

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personalities and definitely is detached.

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You know, there’s psychopaths
and sociopaths and are, are both

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00:00:12,240 –> 00:00:13,870
narcissists, I mean, narcissist.

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So they’re, there’s, it’s definitely a
kind of a disorder and they’re not gonna

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change, and they’re not gonna get better.

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Today, we are speaking
with Barbara Bowman.

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00:00:57,644 –> 00:01:02,085
She is the author of What
Not To Do at Funerals.

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Barbara, could you please
introduce yourself?

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00:01:04,845 –> 00:01:07,365
And let people know just a
little more about you, please.

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Sure.

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Um, well, thank you very much for
sharing your audience with me.

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And, uh, take some time to talk
about one of my passions, which is

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all these faux pas, and, um, lack of
decorum, and things that have really

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caused problems in people’s lives and
families over something as common as,

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uh, funeral, death, and, and grieving.

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Um, I have had a lot of these in my life.

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Most of my family members, my parents, uh,
my siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents,

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my own son, my dogs have all passed and
so I’ve had a lot of experience with that.

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And at the same time, because I’ve
had a lot of experience in my regular

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life where, um, I work in a med spa,

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I’m a med spa where we do like skin
treatments on folks and we get kind of

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personal, um, I am an easy conduit for
people to say, Hey, guess what happened at

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my funeral, or my, not my funeral, but my,
the funeral of my mother or my brother.

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Could you believe this?

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I can’t believe this happened.

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Um, and so over and over again, I
said, I should write a book about

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this and just help people out.

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And not to make it heavy, not to
make it sad, not for it to be a

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trigger for anyone, but just as,
um, a simple guide to kind of,

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you know, in a lighthearted way, just
answer some of those basic questions.

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So it’s not gonna be
awkward or weird anymore.

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And if you do screw up,
there’s some simple ways to,

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to repair those relationships.

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And so I thought it was
important and now a passion.

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Well, death is hard to deal with
for a lot of people because of that

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emotional track that is attached to it.

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You know, it’s always devastating
and it happens at the wrong time.

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And, you know, when we’re young
it can really be grievous.

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So it’s awesome to have somebody out
there trying to help you through this.

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I’ve had several of those funerals myself
and, you know, when you start burying

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your brothers and, uh, all of that,
it, it gets pretty traumatic at times.

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Am I next?

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You know, that’s the big question.

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So what is the big
takeaway from your book?

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I mean, how, how is this thing written
and does it walk you through each of

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the phases going through the funeral?

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00:03:51,540 –> 00:03:53,190
Or what is the book about?

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A little bit.

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00:03:55,140 –> 00:03:59,070
Um, the book’s actually written kind of
punchy, um, it’s, there’s a, there’s a

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little bit of tongue and cheek in it.

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Not that death or grieving at all is,
is not a serious matter, but it’s, in

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a large part written for people who
have not been on that side of grieving.

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And grief is something that once
you experience it, you’re always

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going to have grief in your life.

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You could experience different levels
of grief depending on the relationship

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of the person that’s passed that you
have, it’s always gonna be different.

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I mean, it is.

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Um, people don’t realize how
serious it is when someone loses a

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long-term pet if you’re not a pet
lover, but you have to honor that.

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00:04:36,075 –> 00:04:40,335
And if it’s a very different type of
grief, if you have a grandparent or

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someone who’s been ill for an exceptional
amount of time as opposed to someone,

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something that’s happened suddenly
where there was no expectation, there’s

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been an accident or, or suicide,

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um, and these are all, have
their own type of trauma.

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And if someone doesn’t have a platform
of how to kind of respond to that,

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they can really destroy relationships.

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00:05:03,854 –> 00:05:10,245
And they can end up making what could
be a very serious or supportive, um,

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ceremony and turn it to be about them.

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And that is the worst thing you can do.

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So it’s, it’s very direct and
to the point, you know, what

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do you do when someone dies?

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What’s the first thing you do
when you find out someone’s

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passed that you know, you know?

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Um, you, you, you send a card.

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00:05:32,310 –> 00:05:36,240
I don’t care if that person’s been
like deceased for four or five years.

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If you just found out and they, or someone
you had a relationship with, or it meant

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something to you, um, you send that family
a card because that, that person will

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live forever in their lives, you know?

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Um, some people don’t wanna go to
funerals because they, it makes

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them queasy and so we discuss that.

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Um, basics, real basics like what
not to wear, um, what to wear.

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Um, these, you know, there’s been
some, I have some, there’s been some

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really fun topics that have come up
and, um, oddly enough, the, the same

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basic questions come up every time.

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So, so it’s kind of interesting
that, what to wear at a funeral.

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Because it, it’s kind of odd,
our day and time now, people may

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not necessarily think about that.

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But you don’t wanna go to a
funeral dressed like you’re

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going to Walmart, do you?

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Oh, but people do.

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And, and it’s, and it’s definitely
seen and it’s definitely remembered.

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00:06:44,625 –> 00:06:49,755
I have, you know, for the most part,
especially since COVID, and I, I’m,

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I’m a bit older, but I think COVID,
um, kind of did a number and, on folks

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kind of forgetting what some of these,
some of the normalities we had around.

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What would happen when someone,
when someone died, all kind of got

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blown out, out, out of the water.

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00:07:06,225 –> 00:07:09,765
And there’s a lot of people who
are millennial age, maybe in their

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early thirties, um, who are just now
experiencing a death in their family.

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And so to them they’re thinking,
Should I make a statement?

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We don’t, we wear black now at a wedding.

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We didn’t wear black at weddings
before, why should I have to wear black?

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Um, there’s a lot of these
kind of strange questions.

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But you have to remember, especially
in America, we have a lot of different

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religions and a lot of different beliefs.

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And it’s, and other countries, they
have a main religion and main ceremonies

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that people have done for decades.

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It’s part of their, their national culture
and we kind of don’t have that anymore.

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Especially since the church population
has, has dwindled so much, it’s,

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it’s still even more of a loss.

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And so there have been people
that have wore cocktail

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dresses because it was black.

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But it was also shiny and cut down to
their belly button, so not appropriate.

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There was one instance though, I
will say, and I wrote about it in the

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book, there’s, um, most of them tend
to be serious, you wanna dress like

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you’re going to a job interview or
you’re meeting your, um, significant

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other’s parents for the first time.

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Something conservative,
something respectful, um,

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doesn’t always have to be darker.

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But I did have a friend who, it was
a formal memorial service for her mom

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who was an avid gardener, and so the
daughters all wore these bright sundresses

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and that was in respect for their mom.

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Anyone else who wore something
like that was considered out of

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place and inappropriate, because
it was the memorial service.

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So that was, uh, you know, when
people come in and they say, Well,

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I, I knew her, so I’m gonna, I’m
gonna wear something that I think

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represents the way she would dress.

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Well, it’s not about how you
would represent her, it’s

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about supporting the family.

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So there’s a lot of situations.

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And just real quick, one more, I have
a, um, another where a gentleman passed

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and he worked on the, in the city,
and they worked on, on the roads.

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They have what, what we would call a wake.

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A wake is usually open to the public
and just anybody and everybody who wants

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to can usually attend a wake and they
may go on for, for four or five hours.

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Um, and this gentleman
worked with him on the job.

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He came after work in his muddy work
boots, in his bright orange, you know,

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those neon orange shirts you wear
when you’re working on the road, and

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came in and sat next to the family.

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And this woman came into my
office and she was mortified.

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She said, This guy couldn’t have put
a decent pair of shoes, muddied shoes

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all the way down through the funeral
parlor, he couldn’t have put an extra

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00:10:01,290 –> 00:10:03,210
pair of shoes in his, in his truck?

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He couldn’t have gone home?

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We were there for four hours,
what was wrong with this guy?

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And that was the first thing she told
me when, the week after the funeral.

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It stuck with her that that was,
the guy was lazy and disrespectful.

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Probably there just for the free food.

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Yeah.

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You, you know, another thing,
Barbara, is people need to think for

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themselves during this time and not
lean in on the family necessarily.

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Because they, they have their minds full.

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So what to wear.

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You don’t wanna reach out to the family
and say, Hey, what should I be wearing?

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You should have that emotional
intelligence, emotional support,

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you know, for the family.

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And a lot of people, they don’t have that.

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Yeah.

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It’s not like people don’t
have a television where they

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haven’t seen, they don’t.

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00:11:01,035 –> 00:11:05,775
But you could always call, these, these
things always take place at a location.

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Even if it’s a celebration of life,
which, um, could happen anywhere.

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Um, or if it’s at a particular
church or synagogue.

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Um, if you’re not sure, you just call
the, the funeral director or you call

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the, that church or that location.

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They’ll know.

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They’ll know what’s gonna happen in
the ceremony and they’re gonna know

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what to wear, um, and things like that.

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There’s always someone you can call,
you don’t have to call a family member

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and drag them down with more details.

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00:11:38,765 –> 00:11:39,015
Yeah.

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The, this is kind of why I, I think
it’s critical that people understand,

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and if they don’t, get your book.

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00:11:46,665 –> 00:11:55,395
Because I, I’ve performed a few of
these funerals myself and, you know, the

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last funeral I did was for my cousin.

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And I ended up putting him in the back
of my truck and took him from Klamath

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Falls all the way over the mountain in
a pickup truck instead of the hearse.

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The family, at that time, they
couldn’t, uh, afford the services.

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So I stepped in and
said, Hey, let’s do this.

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And, you know, I’ll put him in my
truck, that’ll save you expense there.

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And it’s really about supporting
the family and getting it done.

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You are so right.

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And I just, lemme just give you kudos.

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I think that was a really nice thing
for you to do and it was very thoughtful

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00:12:43,590 –> 00:12:46,079
and it took a lot of weight off of them.

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00:12:46,079 –> 00:12:49,199
And it, and it showed how
much you cared about him.

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00:12:49,770 –> 00:12:54,540
And that you performed a, you just said,
Hey, I can, I can pick up the slack here.

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00:12:54,569 –> 00:12:56,579
I see a need, I’m gonna meet it.

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00:12:57,329 –> 00:13:02,400
And, you know, I don’t, I don’t
know you, but that’s, that’s a

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00:13:02,400 –> 00:13:07,710
level of character and kindness
that is hard to find these days.

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00:13:08,520 –> 00:13:10,500
But that’s exactly what you need to do.

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00:13:10,650 –> 00:13:12,080
You’re like, Well, I
don’t know what to do.

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00:13:12,460 –> 00:13:16,290
And, you know, it’s one of the hardest
things that you can say to, to, to

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00:13:16,290 –> 00:13:21,360
a family, because as you know, when
someone dies, it’s a ton of work.

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00:13:21,750 –> 00:13:22,170
It is.

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00:13:22,170 –> 00:13:24,540
It’s so much work, it’s exhausting.

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00:13:24,540 –> 00:13:28,500
And you might get a very short amount of
time to deal with all their effects, um,

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00:13:29,430 –> 00:13:33,089
you may not even know what, but you might
end up having a funeral or some type of

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00:13:33,089 –> 00:13:35,280
service before you even completely know,

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00:13:35,880 –> 00:13:38,339
you know, the full story around the death.

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00:13:38,520 –> 00:13:42,180
There’s a lot of things that happen
that are exhausting and there’s a lot of

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00:13:42,180 –> 00:13:48,540
PTSD that’s, that happens just to make
ends meet, just to make details happen.

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00:13:48,930 –> 00:13:51,900
So if you’re a neighbor or
you’re a friend, I would, I

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00:13:51,900 –> 00:13:53,430
wish everyone acted like you.

205
00:13:54,000 –> 00:13:55,050
I wish they said, You know what?

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00:13:55,050 –> 00:13:56,430
I’m just gonna go mow their lawn.

207
00:13:56,579 –> 00:13:58,229
I’m not gonna ask them,
just gonna mow their law.

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00:13:59,160 –> 00:14:00,600
I’m just gonna drop off some food.

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00:14:00,600 –> 00:14:02,760
If they don’t eat it, they don’t like
it, they don’t answer the door, I

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00:14:02,760 –> 00:14:05,040
don’t care, just gonna drop it off.

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00:14:05,880 –> 00:14:11,130
Um, you know, if the, if it’s out of,
if it’s a relative who dies suddenly

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00:14:11,130 –> 00:14:17,430
or something and they have to go out of
town, you know, I, one example I leave is,

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00:14:17,520 –> 00:14:22,020
you, if you’re their friend, you should
instantly become the best Uber driver in

214
00:14:22,020 –> 00:14:23,545
the world at three o’clock in the morning.

215
00:14:24,660 –> 00:14:28,560
It’s, it might be a small inconvenience
for you to take someone to the airport

216
00:14:28,920 –> 00:14:31,980
so they can get across country for
a funeral they didn’t expect, but it

217
00:14:31,980 –> 00:14:35,160
is so much harder for them, you know?

218
00:14:35,220 –> 00:14:36,439
‘Cause they’re not going to Disney World.

219
00:14:37,880 –> 00:14:41,189
They’re gonna go to some, they
had no expectation of doing, so

220
00:14:41,310 –> 00:14:45,360
coming up and saying, just taking
a minute, just taking a beat and

221
00:14:45,360 –> 00:14:49,650
say, What might I need right now?

222
00:14:49,650 –> 00:14:51,099
And then just doing it for them.

223
00:14:52,469 –> 00:14:57,090
You know, and if you, you know, I know
you have to go to your aunt’s house, can I

224
00:14:57,090 –> 00:14:59,160
watch your kids for you during that time?

225
00:14:59,490 –> 00:15:00,660
I’ll change my schedule.

226
00:15:01,560 –> 00:15:04,560
You know, or I have some time can
I watch your kids during that time?

227
00:15:04,560 –> 00:15:07,860
I’d really appreciate it,
an opportunity to do that.

228
00:15:08,790 –> 00:15:10,500
Just, that’s an offer.

229
00:15:11,100 –> 00:15:18,969
Um, and to take it one step further, I
think the best, um, friend and support

230
00:15:18,969 –> 00:15:23,115
person is the one that shows up a
week, two weeks, or a month later.

231
00:15:24,015 –> 00:15:27,735
That if your friend, maybe they’ve been
through quite a few funerals, or if,

232
00:15:27,975 –> 00:15:31,815
or if it was someone who they knew was
gonna pass and so, so many things had

233
00:15:31,815 –> 00:15:33,315
already been laid out and prepared,

234
00:15:33,765 –> 00:15:38,745
and you say, Hey, you know, if they
say, Truly we’ve, we’re, we’ve taken it

235
00:15:38,745 –> 00:15:40,965
all down, we have it all put together.

236
00:15:41,145 –> 00:15:42,375
We don’t, we don’t need any help.

237
00:15:42,565 –> 00:15:44,025
Well, check in a week or two later.

238
00:15:44,565 –> 00:15:48,840
show up again, show up then with a
little, with some food or take ’em out.

239
00:15:49,290 –> 00:15:50,370
Say, Hey, can we do lunch?

240
00:15:50,370 –> 00:15:51,810
You don’t have to talk about anything.

241
00:15:52,020 –> 00:15:56,250
I just wanna give you either some, a
good time or maybe some time to just

242
00:15:56,430 –> 00:16:01,290
blow off some, some grief that you’re
now experiencing that you couldn’t

243
00:16:01,290 –> 00:16:05,460
experience the two weeks earlier when
all, every bit of energy you’re using is

244
00:16:05,460 –> 00:16:09,150
to deal with the funeral and all of that.

245
00:16:09,780 –> 00:16:12,720
You know, that’s when a lot of
the grief really happens is a

246
00:16:12,720 –> 00:16:15,720
week or two later, or starts.

247
00:16:18,415 –> 00:16:18,725
Yeah.

248
00:16:19,845 –> 00:16:24,735
That, that is a really interesting
question because everybody

249
00:16:24,735 –> 00:16:29,835
grieves differently and we
process it out differently.

250
00:16:30,105 –> 00:16:35,895
And sometimes that can actually
take several years, you know, if a

251
00:16:35,895 –> 00:16:38,324
wife loses a husband or whatever.

252
00:16:38,655 –> 00:16:46,035
So that support system after and
the longevity of that support,

253
00:16:46,155 –> 00:16:48,314
I, I really think that matters.

254
00:16:48,314 –> 00:16:55,335
And how do we determine if the
person is okay and we can stop

255
00:16:55,335 –> 00:16:57,615
supporting them in this situation?

256
00:16:58,725 –> 00:16:59,385
You don’t.

257
00:17:01,005 –> 00:17:02,895
You know, um, I think

258
00:17:04,905 –> 00:17:08,790
getting, being able, being able
to get back to regular life, and

259
00:17:08,790 –> 00:17:13,710
by that, it, that’s your, your new
normal, your new regular life, um,

260
00:17:14,160 –> 00:17:17,379
really does depend on who passed.

261
00:17:17,930 –> 00:17:21,089
Sometimes it is, if a parent
was your best friend and your

262
00:17:21,089 –> 00:17:24,660
parent, well, you’ve, you have two
relationships you’re gonna grieve.

263
00:17:25,399 –> 00:17:30,180
Um, if it was a long-term spouse,
I think, and, and, and a child,

264
00:17:30,180 –> 00:17:35,610
I think that there is grief that
you’ll always have and that’s okay.

265
00:17:35,940 –> 00:17:41,639
And I think it’s totally okay to be,
you know, um, I have, I’m grieving a

266
00:17:41,639 –> 00:17:48,240
little bit right, today over my, you
know, my son or my, my dad who died

267
00:17:48,240 –> 00:17:51,810
five years ago, or you may always
feel sad for, for a little bit.

268
00:17:52,379 –> 00:17:53,820
And you can always be supportive.

269
00:17:54,330 –> 00:17:59,850
Um, and I think the way you can
do that is never be afraid to

270
00:17:59,850 –> 00:18:02,310
talk about the person that died.

271
00:18:03,600 –> 00:18:08,400
I have a friend who really was not
there for me when, uh, when my son

272
00:18:08,400 –> 00:18:10,950
passed, and I was shocked by that.

273
00:18:11,190 –> 00:18:18,570
And when you have one of these monumentous
experiences of grief and loss, um, you

274
00:18:18,570 –> 00:18:22,770
know, not just a, a work colleague, or a
college, high school or college friend,

275
00:18:22,770 –> 00:18:28,440
but you know, or a neighbor, but something
much more significant, you will really

276
00:18:28,440 –> 00:18:31,770
find out who the people are in your life
who are gonna be there or not there.

277
00:18:32,159 –> 00:18:35,040
It’s, it does put a, a line in the sand.

278
00:18:35,669 –> 00:18:40,889
And yet this woman, um, who
was very unsupportive, she

279
00:18:40,889 –> 00:18:42,060
just kind of checked out.

280
00:18:42,720 –> 00:18:47,639
Um, she has never forgotten
my son’s birthday, ever.

281
00:18:47,700 –> 00:18:48,710
She continues to call.

282
00:18:48,710 –> 00:18:54,600
She says, Hey, you know, and
it’s, so it’s in her calendar.

283
00:18:54,660 –> 00:18:57,900
And so, and every year she’ll
call me up and we’ll talk for

284
00:18:57,900 –> 00:18:59,520
a few minutes about my son.

285
00:18:59,580 –> 00:19:06,210
And I think I’m always gonna
grieve the, the loss of his life

286
00:19:07,560 –> 00:19:08,880
that I could have had with him.

287
00:19:09,840 –> 00:19:13,620
But knowing that there’s people
around who, who just maintain

288
00:19:13,830 –> 00:19:18,210
the fun, wonderful parts of their
relationship and their personality, ah,

289
00:19:20,610 –> 00:19:22,699
it’s like a, it’s the most
wonderful thing in the world.

290
00:19:24,735 –> 00:19:25,155
Yeah.

291
00:19:25,574 –> 00:19:30,354
You know, my, my mother lost my
oldest brother when he was sixteen.

292
00:19:30,945 –> 00:19:37,435
And I, I was just a child at the time,
but I watched my mother and my father

293
00:19:37,485 –> 00:19:39,855
take that to the grave with them.

294
00:19:40,245 –> 00:19:45,045
Uh, so that grieving, it,
it happens differently.

295
00:19:45,045 –> 00:19:51,405
And it does, it happens lifelong
because there’s an attachment there.

296
00:19:51,405 –> 00:19:58,125
Especially if it’s a son or a daughter,
you know, someone very close like that.

297
00:19:58,695 –> 00:20:03,765
Uh, what’s the best way
to help people like that?

298
00:20:04,335 –> 00:20:10,290
Uh, because, you know, we all
wanna say, How can I help you?

299
00:20:11,040 –> 00:20:13,950
But how do we help?

300
00:20:15,180 –> 00:20:15,480
Yeah.

301
00:20:16,920 –> 00:20:17,400
You can’t.

302
00:20:18,960 –> 00:20:24,889
Well, I think in some of those situations
there’s, there’s a lot you, you can’t

303
00:20:24,889 –> 00:20:27,930
do other than allow them to grieve.

304
00:20:28,920 –> 00:20:33,975
Um, and to the, to grievers out
there, I have experienced grief

305
00:20:33,975 –> 00:20:39,925
with and without grief support and
very specific, um, grief counseling.

306
00:20:39,945 –> 00:20:42,075
And I can tell you it is night and day.

307
00:20:42,435 –> 00:20:48,885
If there are people and, you know, a few
decades ago, grief counseling or grief

308
00:20:48,885 –> 00:20:53,355
groups was just so few and far between.

309
00:20:53,595 –> 00:20:56,325
Um, and if you had insurance,
insurance wouldn’t, wouldn’t

310
00:20:56,325 –> 00:20:57,375
cover that sort of thing.

311
00:20:57,645 –> 00:21:02,115
But what a difference when you
go through this horrible kind of

312
00:21:02,115 –> 00:21:05,805
like Jumanji world, you know, your
whole world is upside down now.

313
00:21:06,435 –> 00:21:11,625
Um, nothing is, nothing is gonna be the
same, no future situation’s gonna be

314
00:21:11,625 –> 00:21:14,775
the same, no Christmas, no birthdays,
no holidays are gonna be the same

315
00:21:14,775 –> 00:21:16,215
because, ’cause your brother’s gone.

316
00:21:17,115 –> 00:21:22,095
Now if you are speaking with other people
who are going through that, you’ll be

317
00:21:22,095 –> 00:21:23,985
able to find some kind of normalcy.

318
00:21:23,985 –> 00:21:27,255
Like, I’m not, I’m not going
crazy that I still cry over this.

319
00:21:27,495 –> 00:21:30,915
I’m not going crazy that I still feel this
loss even though I have these other kids.

320
00:21:31,604 –> 00:21:37,425
I, I can’t say enough about professional
support, uh, in those days where

321
00:21:37,425 –> 00:21:41,834
your body just can’t maybe get
outta bed or get out of a chair.

322
00:21:42,165 –> 00:21:46,364
And, you know, you have a support or
support person that says, Yeah, I remember

323
00:21:46,364 –> 00:21:47,925
that day, tomorrow will be different.

324
00:21:48,675 –> 00:21:56,340
Um, and I, I, and I think feeling like you
can’t talk about it, or feeling like you

325
00:21:56,340 –> 00:21:59,970
can’t take a moment to grieve and be sad,
or you have to leave the other room ’cause

326
00:21:59,970 –> 00:22:03,810
it’s gonna make people uncomfortable,
um, I think that’s really hard.

327
00:22:04,140 –> 00:22:07,410
Um, but it is something we have to do.

328
00:22:07,830 –> 00:22:13,650
Unfortunately, those of us who,
um, have had or dealing with severe

329
00:22:13,650 –> 00:22:19,020
grief have to do a little bit of
counseling, whether we like it or not.

330
00:22:19,410 –> 00:22:20,730
To the people around us,

331
00:22:21,360 –> 00:22:25,590
um, who have not and may never experience
what we’re going through, and to

332
00:22:25,590 –> 00:22:29,550
just tell them, Yeah, I’m gonna have
moments where I’m just really sad.

333
00:22:30,510 –> 00:22:33,629
You know, certain songs
may help me feel better.

334
00:22:33,629 –> 00:22:36,120
Certain songs may make me
feel bad, but I’m always gonna

335
00:22:36,120 –> 00:22:37,889
feel bad because I love ’em.

336
00:22:39,330 –> 00:22:41,219
Just tell ’em, I’m, I’m
always gonna miss ’em.

337
00:22:41,399 –> 00:22:42,510
I’m always gonna love them.

338
00:22:42,810 –> 00:22:47,280
And most of the time I’m happy thinking
of, thinking of them, but every

339
00:22:47,280 –> 00:22:48,780
once in a while, I’m gonna be sad.

340
00:22:50,159 –> 00:22:52,770
You know, and I, I, I hope
you’re okay with that.

341
00:22:54,030 –> 00:22:56,550
You know, you’re not gonna ruin
everyone’s dinner, you’re not

342
00:22:56,550 –> 00:22:57,629
gonna ruin all of Christmas.

343
00:22:57,629 –> 00:23:00,120
But if your mom has a few moments
where she’s thinking about

344
00:23:00,750 –> 00:23:02,550
your brother, let her have it.

345
00:23:02,820 –> 00:23:05,220
Just go, Yeah, I know he is still here.

346
00:23:05,220 –> 00:23:07,980
If you believe, that’s your belief,
say, You know, why would he miss

347
00:23:07,980 –> 00:23:10,530
a Christmas, um, with the family?

348
00:23:10,980 –> 00:23:15,075
If you believe, you know, that there’s
angels or spirits or if, if you have a

349
00:23:15,075 –> 00:23:18,815
belief that they’re, they have contact
with us then I would believe that your

350
00:23:18,815 –> 00:23:20,625
brother is there every single time.

351
00:23:20,625 –> 00:23:22,845
‘Cause it’s his family and he is invested.

352
00:23:24,375 –> 00:23:24,615
Yep.

353
00:23:25,275 –> 00:23:27,000
Yep, I, I like that a lot.

354
00:23:27,540 –> 00:23:33,225
So I, I really think that you
touched on something very important.

355
00:23:33,645 –> 00:23:40,965
Uh, it, it doesn’t even really have to be
a counselor, but a group of individuals

356
00:23:40,965 –> 00:23:45,180
that experienced a similar situation.

357
00:23:46,440 –> 00:23:47,820
That’s relation.

358
00:23:47,910 –> 00:23:54,450
You know, it, it’s, they can relate
to you a lot better than most people.

359
00:23:54,660 –> 00:24:02,670
You know, we have no clue how you feel
so having that support system is vital.

360
00:24:02,700 –> 00:24:09,870
And I think if my mother and my father
would’ve found that type of support,

361
00:24:10,950 –> 00:24:17,040
it, it would’ve helped change the
dynamics in our family long term.

362
00:24:17,520 –> 00:24:21,180
So I, I like that you encourage that.

363
00:24:22,125 –> 00:24:24,075
And you can’t get that from social media.

364
00:24:24,585 –> 00:24:24,945
Right.

365
00:24:25,635 –> 00:24:27,705
You cannot get that from social media.

366
00:24:27,885 –> 00:24:32,505
Someone might be speaking about their
loss or their grief or, or what their

367
00:24:32,505 –> 00:24:35,445
steps in the grieving process were like.

368
00:24:35,445 –> 00:24:39,525
And that may resonate with you, but
it also might make you feel, well,

369
00:24:39,525 –> 00:24:42,525
I’m not experiencing what they’re
experiencing, so what’s wrong with me?

370
00:24:43,305 –> 00:24:49,575
So, you know, it has its place, but
it’s, you know, and I, you may, you

371
00:24:49,575 –> 00:24:53,385
can’t relate to this either, but
it’s kind of like being pregnant.

372
00:24:53,385 –> 00:24:55,305
If you were pregnant and you were
the only person around that was

373
00:24:55,305 –> 00:24:58,305
pregnant, you wouldn’t have anyone
to say, What does this feel like?

374
00:24:58,305 –> 00:24:58,865
How is this now?

375
00:24:58,865 –> 00:24:59,774
What to do.

376
00:25:00,225 –> 00:25:03,105
You know, this is, maybe
you can’t experience that.

377
00:25:03,105 –> 00:25:07,995
So, but it is, this is why there’s
these, these types of groups.

378
00:25:08,955 –> 00:25:15,870
The only caveat I have is that there
have been some, you know, I’ve, I’ve

379
00:25:15,870 –> 00:25:21,179
been in some groups that I’ve gotten
out of fairly quickly because you also

380
00:25:21,179 –> 00:25:26,189
don’t wanna use it as a group where you,
um, there’s some people, I’ll put it

381
00:25:26,189 –> 00:25:31,439
this way, that feel that for, at least
for a time, that if they’re not sad

382
00:25:32,520 –> 00:25:38,340
or angry that maybe they didn’t love
them as much as they thought they did.

383
00:25:38,820 –> 00:25:45,105
That, and being sad and being depressed,
and shutting people out, and carrying

384
00:25:45,105 –> 00:25:52,155
that, you know, that intensity with
them is somehow honoring that deceased.

385
00:25:52,655 –> 00:25:57,794
Um, and not, and the, the fear that if
you let go of that, you’ll forget them.

386
00:25:59,145 –> 00:26:01,635
Um, or people won’t think
you love them as much.

387
00:26:02,175 –> 00:26:06,435
And you know, that’s one of the
things that a good group will

388
00:26:06,435 –> 00:26:08,195
help someone navigate through.

389
00:26:08,764 –> 00:26:12,000
And say, You can be angry and you can be
sad, but that doesn’t change anything.

390
00:26:12,210 –> 00:26:16,230
That just doesn’t change your
grief or your love for them.

391
00:26:16,860 –> 00:26:21,660
Um, and, but what it does do is
it doesn’t allow other people to

392
00:26:21,660 –> 00:26:23,940
love you or come close to you.

393
00:26:24,660 –> 00:26:27,389
Um, and it doesn’t allow
you to love other people.

394
00:26:27,720 –> 00:26:34,230
And in my particular opinion, just
my opinion, that that is, in a way,

395
00:26:34,620 –> 00:26:36,935
the opposite of what any one of
our loved ones would want for us.

396
00:26:38,025 –> 00:26:43,755
I, I think even if, you know, whether
people believe in the afterlife or

397
00:26:43,755 –> 00:26:48,104
not, there’s all these fellows and
gals that do this, you know, talk

398
00:26:48,104 –> 00:26:50,475
to the dead, you know, or whatever.

399
00:26:50,534 –> 00:26:54,165
Or when people see, see birds, or they
see, you know, they have dreams of,

400
00:26:54,165 –> 00:26:58,245
of their loved ones, no one’s ever
upset, No one’s ever mad at them,

401
00:26:58,455 –> 00:27:00,135
no one’s ever holding any grudge.

402
00:27:00,375 –> 00:27:04,784
Every single time I’ve yet to hear
of even one story where someone

403
00:27:04,784 –> 00:27:08,084
passed and didn’t want more than
anything for their loved ones on

404
00:27:08,084 –> 00:27:10,784
earth to be happy, that they’re okay.

405
00:27:10,784 –> 00:27:18,720
And I would never want anyone to be sad
all the time because my life was over.

406
00:27:19,590 –> 00:27:25,590
And I know that my son and, and my family
are are like, Hey, please don’t be upset.

407
00:27:25,770 –> 00:27:29,610
I would make them feel so bad to
think that my life, I’m unable to

408
00:27:29,610 –> 00:27:32,970
love anyone again because my heart
is so broken and I’m so empty.

409
00:27:34,200 –> 00:27:36,720
I would hurt, that would grieve them.

410
00:27:37,680 –> 00:27:42,090
And I, I refuse to upset
them, as much as I can.

411
00:27:42,240 –> 00:27:45,510
But I will cry, and I’ll get upset,
and I’ll be sad for a moment,

412
00:27:46,530 –> 00:27:51,960
but, um, I’m kind of determined
to love a little more because

413
00:27:52,020 –> 00:27:53,910
that’s, those are hands that can’t.

414
00:27:54,300 –> 00:27:58,950
Or give a little more in service because
those are hands that can’t now in, in the,

415
00:27:58,950 –> 00:28:00,990
in the tangible, physical way that I can.

416
00:28:01,950 –> 00:28:07,395
But, um, in groups also, one, I
mean, I have to say that the, the

417
00:28:07,395 –> 00:28:09,735
VA has some of the best groups.

418
00:28:09,735 –> 00:28:15,045
If someone is lucky enough to be part
of a, uh, the VA or a TAP situation,

419
00:28:15,045 –> 00:28:17,405
tragedy assistance for survivors, um,

420
00:28:19,574 –> 00:28:23,475
these people have long-term group
relationships, um, with other

421
00:28:23,475 –> 00:28:26,835
people who have grieved and, and
lost their children and loved ones.

422
00:28:27,405 –> 00:28:30,735
And they find they can, they, they
always have an out with someone who

423
00:28:30,740 –> 00:28:36,845
will understand what they’re going
through, that’s a great relief.

424
00:28:36,885 –> 00:28:38,280
I, I, I like that a lot.

425
00:28:38,670 –> 00:28:43,920
You know, I think it’s very important
that people actually speak to

426
00:28:43,920 –> 00:28:51,930
one another about the possibility
and the release before we die.

427
00:28:52,260 –> 00:28:56,730
Uh, I talk to my wife all the
time and tell her, Look, I, I

428
00:28:56,730 –> 00:29:00,300
really don’t want you to be sad.

429
00:29:00,300 –> 00:29:07,730
I want you to be happy, I want you
to find another person to be with.

430
00:29:08,130 –> 00:29:15,720
You know, you don’t have to remarry, but
find someone to help you get through life.

431
00:29:16,200 –> 00:29:17,460
It, it’s important.

432
00:29:17,610 –> 00:29:24,405
So I don’t know how many people actually
take the time to speak with their loved

433
00:29:24,405 –> 00:29:33,555
ones about this and I, I think it comforts
them a little in case that happens.

434
00:29:34,035 –> 00:29:39,885
There’s no expectations here, you
have to be who you are and carry on.

435
00:29:42,135 –> 00:29:42,525
You do.

436
00:29:42,525 –> 00:29:47,834
And I think it, the, the folks who
don’t have that conversation probably

437
00:29:47,834 –> 00:29:49,544
have a real, just fear of death.

438
00:29:50,415 –> 00:29:53,264
And a lot of anxiety of what
would happen afterwards.

439
00:29:53,715 –> 00:30:00,614
Um, and, but that is, that is
a, a true love of someone else.

440
00:30:00,824 –> 00:30:04,425
You know, if, if you believe that
part of your relationship is to care

441
00:30:04,425 –> 00:30:08,774
for that person, to make sure they’re
cared for, that they’re protected, um,

442
00:30:08,804 –> 00:30:13,890
physically, emotionally, spiritually,
that that’s part of your job as

443
00:30:13,890 –> 00:30:15,510
that, as that union of marriage.

444
00:30:16,320 –> 00:30:20,250
Then if you knew, if you weren’t able
to do that, you would wanna make sure

445
00:30:20,250 –> 00:30:23,100
that they found someone that, that
could, that could do that for them.

446
00:30:23,340 –> 00:30:26,850
And I think it’s always important
to say, I feel this is my job and I

447
00:30:26,850 –> 00:30:31,290
love you this way, and I, and I know
that it, I would want someone else

448
00:30:31,290 –> 00:30:35,190
to, to pick up where I left off in
making sure that you’re cared for.

449
00:30:35,490 –> 00:30:39,855
And sometimes that could even
be, you know, a, a child, or, you

450
00:30:39,855 –> 00:30:44,985
know, uh, a brother, or a sister,
depending on the age, uh, of the,

451
00:30:46,905 –> 00:30:48,044
you know, of the family member.

452
00:30:48,044 –> 00:30:50,504
If they’re, if they’re in
their eighties, they may not.

453
00:30:50,504 –> 00:30:53,715
But, but that, at that point, you
have to make sure with your kids,

454
00:30:53,715 –> 00:30:57,855
ahead of time, what’s gonna happen
to mom or what would happen to dad.

455
00:30:58,875 –> 00:31:03,975
Because at some point it’s not too
common that spouses die at the same time.

456
00:31:04,995 –> 00:31:11,430
And though they may not be able to or
want to have a new intimate relationship

457
00:31:11,550 –> 00:31:15,429
with the opposite, you know, get married
again and, and such, but they will be

458
00:31:15,429 –> 00:31:22,860
alone for a time and it’s important for
the family, I believe, very important

459
00:31:22,860 –> 00:31:27,450
for the family to have made that decision
and have them talks amongst themselves.

460
00:31:27,450 –> 00:31:32,550
And know what they’re gonna do and
what that plan is before one or the

461
00:31:32,550 –> 00:31:36,510
other parent passes because that
just takes all the pressure off.

462
00:31:38,865 –> 00:31:42,285
Because that, when, if one of ’em
had died suddenly, unless they’re

463
00:31:42,285 –> 00:31:46,925
both in their eighties or something,
um, and one dies suddenly, these are

464
00:31:46,925 –> 00:31:48,855
discussions that people start to panic.

465
00:31:50,115 –> 00:31:51,225
I don’t wanna take them in.

466
00:31:51,345 –> 00:31:52,185
How am I gonna do it?

467
00:31:52,315 –> 00:31:53,205
When is this gonna happen?

468
00:31:53,205 –> 00:31:54,135
How would this work?

469
00:31:54,360 –> 00:31:59,655
And it, it can really overshadow
what’s happening at, at the funeral

470
00:31:59,685 –> 00:32:03,795
’cause now they’re having these
conversations, um, in a moment of duress.

471
00:32:04,620 –> 00:32:06,810
When they never should have had
these conversations in a moment of

472
00:32:06,810 –> 00:32:10,050
duress, and stress, and, and grief.

473
00:32:10,500 –> 00:32:15,030
And so now a lot of wires are gonna get
crossed, things will, people will say

474
00:32:15,030 –> 00:32:18,120
things that they probably may not have
said if they had time to think about it.

475
00:32:18,480 –> 00:32:21,929
So it’s definitely, it’s
really good to plan.

476
00:32:21,929 –> 00:32:25,770
I mean, I’m planning, I have, I’m
working on my own playlist because I

477
00:32:25,770 –> 00:32:28,860
know by the time I pass, no one’s gonna
know any of the music that I like.

478
00:32:31,350 –> 00:32:31,680
Yeah.

479
00:32:32,070 –> 00:32:35,879
Well, that, that is, that’s
exactly my point there.

480
00:32:36,210 –> 00:32:42,180
Uh, the more that we can do before we
go, it, it really helps alleviate the

481
00:32:42,180 –> 00:32:48,030
pain and suffering that they’re, they’re
going to have it, it’s going to happen.

482
00:32:48,030 –> 00:32:53,310
You’re gonna cry, you’re gonna
get outta shape, and you, you just

483
00:32:53,310 –> 00:32:55,160
don’t know when that’s gonna hit.

484
00:32:55,520 –> 00:32:59,460
You know, some, sometimes you
get through the funeral and

485
00:32:59,640 –> 00:33:03,420
everything’s fine, I, and then crash.

486
00:33:03,840 –> 00:33:12,000
You know, so people, they do things
differently and they respond differently.

487
00:33:12,000 –> 00:33:13,500
We should prepare for them.

488
00:33:16,440 –> 00:33:19,980
One thing I kind of, too in, in that
vein, and circling back to something

489
00:33:19,980 –> 00:33:25,920
else that, that you said about how
people grieve differently and also how

490
00:33:25,980 –> 00:33:29,340
this can incorporate with, if you’re
a friend of someone who’s grieving.

491
00:33:30,270 –> 00:33:34,500
I, I’m gonna, this is a
general statement, okay?

492
00:33:34,770 –> 00:33:38,880
In general, I’ve seen that men
grieve very differently than women.

493
00:33:39,780 –> 00:33:45,000
There’s a difference in the way that
a lot of men grieve and, um, it may

494
00:33:45,000 –> 00:33:50,010
have a lot to do with their upbringing
and, and you know, where they grew up.

495
00:33:50,635 –> 00:33:57,195
But I don’t see as many women doing
runs, and hikes, and, and physical

496
00:33:57,195 –> 00:33:59,415
challenges to honor that person.

497
00:33:59,415 –> 00:34:03,165
I just need to do something
physical, something tangible

498
00:34:03,165 –> 00:34:04,545
that I can say I did that.

499
00:34:05,085 –> 00:34:08,835
Um, and I see a lot of that
with men and I honor that.

500
00:34:08,835 –> 00:34:11,865
And I feel if you’re a friend
of someone, that is an option.

501
00:34:11,865 –> 00:34:13,245
You can say, Hey, you know,

502
00:34:14,535 –> 00:34:17,985
would you like to, have you thought
about make, doing a memorial run,

503
00:34:17,985 –> 00:34:24,495
or, or, um, um, a motorcycle run,
or a hike, or a sponsorship for

504
00:34:24,495 –> 00:34:26,535
something, or a plaque of some kind?

505
00:34:26,535 –> 00:34:32,745
Have you thought about, you know,
memorializing his, his life in some way?

506
00:34:32,895 –> 00:34:36,855
And that’s not a bad conversation
a little bit after, you know?

507
00:34:37,185 –> 00:34:40,215
If you have a, especially if it’s a
friend, if someone loses a friend.

508
00:34:41,250 –> 00:34:44,700
Let their guy friends, instead of
just going through, having their own

509
00:34:44,700 –> 00:34:48,990
little celebration of life before
they pass, uh, you know, do shots

510
00:34:48,990 –> 00:34:52,560
together, which is something you do not
do at a funeral or memorial service,

511
00:34:52,830 –> 00:34:57,630
but might have a separate, you know,
celebration of life in your own group.

512
00:34:58,800 –> 00:35:00,450
That’s something as a group can do.

513
00:35:00,870 –> 00:35:03,870
Now, I, I don’t find that so often
with women and that’s totally okay.

514
00:35:04,020 –> 00:35:10,935
But if, if you’re the spouse of, uh, and
your husband has lost a best friend, or a

515
00:35:10,935 –> 00:35:13,215
brother, or someone, suggest that to them.

516
00:35:13,905 –> 00:35:16,245
Say, Hey, maybe I can help
get your guys together.

517
00:35:16,425 –> 00:35:18,165
You guys can do something special.

518
00:35:18,735 –> 00:35:21,075
And, you know, do it
for a couple years out,

519
00:35:21,645 –> 00:35:22,425
do something.

520
00:35:22,425 –> 00:35:28,095
And that allows them, um, an avenue
to put their energies, um, to grieve.

521
00:35:28,155 –> 00:35:32,385
And when they have to compartmentalize
to, to support other people, or go

522
00:35:32,385 –> 00:35:36,690
to work, and they have to sometimes
shut down some of those feelings

523
00:35:36,750 –> 00:35:38,339
and that takes a lot of energy.

524
00:35:38,580 –> 00:35:42,779
But if they can bring ’em out in
another form, that’s pretty healthy

525
00:35:43,080 –> 00:35:46,589
and, and it’s definitely honoring
and it brings other people together.

526
00:35:46,589 –> 00:35:48,505
And who wouldn’t want that in their lives?

527
00:35:51,240 –> 00:35:55,500
Yeah, that’s more of a positive
energy and, and that’s what you really

528
00:35:55,500 –> 00:35:58,920
need to tap into during that time.

529
00:35:58,980 –> 00:36:02,759
Get outta that negative energy
and tap into something positive.

530
00:36:03,720 –> 00:36:09,480
Barbara, you are writing another book
or have you already published it?

531
00:36:11,430 –> 00:36:12,990
Could you talk to us about that?

532
00:36:14,580 –> 00:36:15,330
Sure.

533
00:36:15,480 –> 00:36:19,110
Um, well on, you know, since I
seem to like to talk about awkward

534
00:36:19,110 –> 00:36:24,750
subjects, um, I am writing another
small, it’s small, it’ll be similar.

535
00:36:24,810 –> 00:36:27,279
And probably this is, this
one’s only like sixty bucks.

536
00:36:27,279 –> 00:36:29,100
They can get it on, I mean, sixty pages.

537
00:36:29,370 –> 00:36:32,400
They can get it on Amazon, they can
download it ’cause it is a guide.

538
00:36:32,760 –> 00:36:37,260
The second one is also a guide, but
it’s called, Getting Out, a Tactical

539
00:36:37,260 –> 00:36:39,090
Guide to Escaping Narcissism.

540
00:36:41,175 –> 00:36:47,355
So it’s a, it’s written in a, in a
style like a, I read a, a survival

541
00:36:47,355 –> 00:36:51,645
guide that an ex-military man put
together on how to survive out in the

542
00:36:51,645 –> 00:36:56,595
wilderness, and so that’s the style that
it’s written in as if you’re reading

543
00:36:56,595 –> 00:36:58,695
a tactical guide of, to survival.

544
00:37:00,375 –> 00:37:00,885
Right on.

545
00:37:01,065 –> 00:37:07,005
So what, what brought this, it, it’s
such a contrast to the first, what,

546
00:37:07,635 –> 00:37:10,185
what brought this into fruition?

547
00:37:11,685 –> 00:37:17,205
Well, one thing that happened when I was
thinking about writing the What Not To

548
00:37:17,205 –> 00:37:24,285
Do At Funerals book was, that so much out
there about grief was either a trigger

549
00:37:24,285 –> 00:37:28,515
to my own grief, or was just about
grieving, or how to know you’re grieving.

550
00:37:28,815 –> 00:37:33,194
And, and it was, most of it was kind
of down and similar to these books on

551
00:37:33,254 –> 00:37:37,125
narcissism, which is now a little bit
over ten percent of the population.

552
00:37:38,055 –> 00:37:39,855
Hard stop, it’s kind of scary.

553
00:37:40,274 –> 00:37:47,670
Um, they were also about, you know,
the PTSD, about, of coming out of

554
00:37:47,670 –> 00:37:51,330
a relationship, how to know your,
how to recognize a narcissist

555
00:37:51,330 –> 00:37:52,890
and all the psychological stuff.

556
00:37:52,920 –> 00:37:54,750
And they’re kind of a downer too.

557
00:37:54,990 –> 00:38:00,090
And I had been in two, I hate to
say it, two very different type

558
00:38:00,090 –> 00:38:02,460
of narcissists, uh, relationships.

559
00:38:03,270 –> 00:38:05,670
And I just wanted some
hands-on practical stuff.

560
00:38:05,850 –> 00:38:07,170
Can you just tell me what to do?

561
00:38:07,350 –> 00:38:11,610
Can you tell me how, you know,
how not to buy, get an attorney?

562
00:38:12,060 –> 00:38:16,200
You know, how, how maybe to get money
away, what are some tangible things

563
00:38:16,200 –> 00:38:21,120
that I can do a little bit at a time
to regain my sense of self, to gain a

564
00:38:21,120 –> 00:38:24,900
sense of control over the situation,
and to kind of come to terms with,

565
00:38:24,900 –> 00:38:27,600
I’m in Jumanji, I am where I am.

566
00:38:28,410 –> 00:38:32,834
I am, there’s, there’s a
predator and I am the prey.

567
00:38:33,314 –> 00:38:37,665
And if I just think of it that way, maybe
each step along the way will give someone

568
00:38:37,665 –> 00:38:41,234
a little bit of encouragement to know
they have some hands on things they can

569
00:38:41,234 –> 00:38:47,475
do to kind of take their life back little
at a time and not bring ’em down, or

570
00:38:47,475 –> 00:38:49,595
make them feel bad, or guilty, or shamed.

571
00:38:50,444 –> 00:38:53,535
And that’s, uh, definitely the
direction I don’t wanna go.

572
00:38:54,794 –> 00:39:00,254
Well, I really think you, you said
ten percent, I, I, I would really

573
00:39:00,254 –> 00:39:03,285
have thought it was higher than that.

574
00:39:03,645 –> 00:39:13,995
Uh, we, we find ourselves being pushed
into narcissism anymore, and it seems like

575
00:39:13,995 –> 00:39:17,355
everyone has a touch of it in our society.

576
00:39:17,595 –> 00:39:22,694
So helping people recognize
this, is very important.

577
00:39:23,145 –> 00:39:30,990
And especially for those breaking
up and stepping back into the

578
00:39:30,990 –> 00:39:32,940
world, they’re vulnerable.

579
00:39:33,090 –> 00:39:38,009
They may not even feel that they’re
vulnerable, but they are vulnerable.

580
00:39:38,950 –> 00:39:43,150
They’ve been out of the dating
scene for many, many years and

581
00:39:43,150 –> 00:39:45,280
they get thrust back into it.

582
00:39:45,940 –> 00:39:54,940
So there’s a lot that people should
consider as they reenter this dating game.

583
00:39:56,860 –> 00:39:59,970
Yes, I call it rewilding yourself.

584
00:40:00,030 –> 00:40:05,040
And there is, there’s some, but
there’s some really quick ways to

585
00:40:05,040 –> 00:40:06,660
find out if someone is a narcissist.

586
00:40:07,110 –> 00:40:10,590
And I would, I do agree, selfishness
is definitely on the rise.

587
00:40:10,940 –> 00:40:16,740
Inconsideration is definitely, um,
at a level I’ve never experienced.

588
00:40:17,100 –> 00:40:22,620
And, but they may not be narcissists,
you know, ’cause a narcissist

589
00:40:22,620 –> 00:40:25,260
cannot, cannot do self-reflection.

590
00:40:26,100 –> 00:40:29,950
Um, and so there’s a, there’s a few
quick things you can just ask someone,

591
00:40:30,570 –> 00:40:31,905
um, especially if you’re dating.

592
00:40:32,805 –> 00:40:37,695
Um, at that first date or that first
meet, um, that will determine immediately

593
00:40:37,695 –> 00:40:38,955
if they’re a narcissist or not.

594
00:40:39,765 –> 00:40:42,645
And by the way, speed dating
is, there’s more narcissists at

595
00:40:42,645 –> 00:40:44,535
speed dating than any place else.

596
00:40:44,535 –> 00:40:46,305
So if you wanna meet
one, that’s where to go.

597
00:40:47,555 –> 00:40:48,535
Yeah, don’t speed date.

598
00:40:48,975 –> 00:40:50,905
They’re the best,

599
00:40:50,975 –> 00:40:53,100
they do the best at speed
dating is the narcissist.

600
00:40:53,100 –> 00:40:55,890
So don’t, don’t go there, you’re,
you’re probably gonna get one.

601
00:40:56,339 –> 00:41:00,450
Um, so there’s some, there’s some
great ways to just very quickly

602
00:41:00,480 –> 00:41:01,740
ask a couple of quick questions.

603
00:41:01,740 –> 00:41:03,299
You can’t say, Are you a narcissist?

604
00:41:03,779 –> 00:41:06,810
But if they had gotten out of,
been out of a relationship, you can

605
00:41:06,810 –> 00:41:08,430
say, ask them what they learned.

606
00:41:09,000 –> 00:41:10,680
How are they different
from that relationship?

607
00:41:10,799 –> 00:41:12,540
And they will not have learned anything.

608
00:41:14,010 –> 00:41:14,850
Interesting.

609
00:41:15,000 –> 00:41:16,410
That, that’s big, you know?

610
00:41:16,500 –> 00:41:21,090
A lot of, a lot of people that are
out there talking about narcissistic

611
00:41:21,270 –> 00:41:27,210
behavior, they are not identifying
those traits like that and saying,

612
00:41:27,210 –> 00:41:35,610
Look, this is a behavior trait that will
give you a higher suspicion count on

613
00:41:35,610 –> 00:41:38,490
this individual if this is happening.

614
00:41:38,880 –> 00:41:44,775
So to be able to name that and just
stop the grouping, because I, I

615
00:41:44,775 –> 00:41:49,905
think you touched a little there,
a lot of people get grouped in with

616
00:41:49,905 –> 00:41:56,355
narcissists, but they don’t have
those identifying characteristics.

617
00:41:56,355 –> 00:42:03,105
And I think what you outlined there is
very important for so many podcasters and

618
00:42:03,375 –> 00:42:06,315
media influencers to realize nowadays.

619
00:42:08,580 –> 00:42:08,940
It’s true.

620
00:42:08,940 –> 00:42:12,420
I mean, you, everybody, someone might
be a little narcissistic here and there,

621
00:42:12,630 –> 00:42:18,390
but, uh, a true narcissist definitely has
multiple, you know, internal personalities

622
00:42:18,390 –> 00:42:20,370
and is definitely, is detached.

623
00:42:20,640 –> 00:42:23,850
You know, there’s the psychopaths
and sociopaths and are, are

624
00:42:24,360 –> 00:42:26,300
both narcissists and narcissist.

625
00:42:26,610 –> 00:42:30,720
So they’re, there’s, it’s definitely a
kind of a disorder and they’re not gonna

626
00:42:30,720 –> 00:42:32,280
change and they’re not gonna get better.

627
00:42:33,210 –> 00:42:36,300
You know, tiger, they don’t, tigers
don’t change their stripes kind of thing.

628
00:42:37,185 –> 00:42:37,754
That’s right.

629
00:42:38,174 –> 00:42:43,605
So when do you suspect this to
be released for publication?

630
00:42:44,535 –> 00:42:48,544
Probably not till closer to the
end of the year, I know it’s May.

631
00:42:48,575 –> 00:42:51,615
But like for four or five months,
I was doing a ton of podcasts

632
00:42:51,975 –> 00:42:55,634
and, um, starting to do some
public speaking on, on, on this.

633
00:42:56,865 –> 00:43:02,384
But I have to say, I, I’ve been pleasantly
surprised how many folks have said,

634
00:43:02,384 –> 00:43:03,845
Could you please hurry up the other book?

635
00:43:04,635 –> 00:43:04,785
You know,

636
00:43:06,795 –> 00:43:07,965
I can always add to it.

637
00:43:07,965 –> 00:43:09,435
I can always add a chapter.

638
00:43:10,725 –> 00:43:11,145
Yeah.

639
00:43:11,265 –> 00:43:15,915
Well, that, that’s very interesting
because that really outlines what

640
00:43:15,915 –> 00:43:21,075
we just said, it’s on the rise of
being a popular discussion topic.

641
00:43:21,555 –> 00:43:26,970
So people should actually realize
what their topic of discussion

642
00:43:27,060 –> 00:43:34,470
really entails instead of just a few
character flaws that many of us have.

643
00:43:34,950 –> 00:43:42,240
So my wife outlines that a lot to me,
you know, and it’s really interesting.

644
00:43:44,995 –> 00:43:45,885
What does she do?

645
00:43:46,995 –> 00:43:53,759
Well, she, she says there’s so many
people out there that say that people

646
00:43:53,759 –> 00:43:57,569
are narcissist, but they’re really not.

647
00:43:57,569 –> 00:44:02,850
It’s just a character trait that
they might be displaying at the time.

648
00:44:03,480 –> 00:44:08,430
So this one of those things
that we talk about, you know?

649
00:44:09,029 –> 00:44:10,440
Do you see this?

650
00:44:10,500 –> 00:44:15,569
And I think that’s vital that people
have that open communication about that.

651
00:44:17,245 –> 00:44:18,475
Oh, absolutely.

652
00:44:18,664 –> 00:44:23,924
Um, and the other, but the other
point, um, like, like to your wife’s

653
00:44:23,924 –> 00:44:29,294
discussion is that someone can truly be
a narcissist, but they’re not extreme.

654
00:44:30,464 –> 00:44:33,454
You know, they haven’t taken their
narcissism to a psychopathic level

655
00:44:33,914 –> 00:44:37,754
or, um, and so there, there are those
who are more extreme than others.

656
00:44:38,564 –> 00:44:43,995
But they still can’t answer the same
questions and they’re still gonna fall

657
00:44:45,435 –> 00:44:50,625
to being a victim on everything that’s
ever happened in their lives, you know?

658
00:44:50,714 –> 00:44:55,754
And they might be very covert, and
poor, pitiful, poor me, uh, and the one

659
00:44:55,754 –> 00:45:01,095
who’s in the corner of the room, um,
feeling like he’s eyeing everybody out.

660
00:45:01,095 –> 00:45:04,335
Or they may be the, you know,
overtly and hey, you know,

661
00:45:04,335 –> 00:45:05,805
like those car salesman types.

662
00:45:06,375 –> 00:45:06,705
Um,

663
00:45:08,775 –> 00:45:11,775
but, you know, and there’s
just a different approach.

664
00:45:11,775 –> 00:45:16,995
One is a snake, you know, they slither
and, you know, one is more loud.

665
00:45:16,995 –> 00:45:19,815
So there’s different type of
predators out there, but those are

666
00:45:19,815 –> 00:45:23,385
the ones that are definitely the,
you know, the meat eaters that want

667
00:45:23,385 –> 00:45:24,675
you, that are gonna take you down.

668
00:45:26,085 –> 00:45:29,445
I, I’ve enjoyed our
conversation today, Barbara.

669
00:45:29,685 –> 00:45:33,345
Is there anything that we
should add to the conversation?

670
00:45:34,275 –> 00:45:35,445
Gosh, there’s so much.

671
00:45:35,445 –> 00:45:40,680
Um, I would say that this, I think
other things that are, that are really

672
00:45:40,680 –> 00:45:43,080
fun in the book, and I’ll just say
if anyone’s out there and they’re

673
00:45:43,080 –> 00:45:49,290
interested, some, some other topics that,
that, that are discussed are like what

674
00:45:49,770 –> 00:45:51,660
options to say other than, I’m sorry.

675
00:45:51,779 –> 00:45:54,660
There’s a whole group of options
you can say other than I’m sorry,

676
00:45:54,930 –> 00:45:57,330
which is probably the most popular.

677
00:45:57,660 –> 00:46:00,660
Because there are, even folks who
are grieving who just say, please,

678
00:46:00,660 –> 00:46:01,830
I don’t wanna hear that anymore.

679
00:46:02,580 –> 00:46:07,080
Um, I think that’s probably one
of the, the biggest and, just

680
00:46:07,169 –> 00:46:10,950
like we discussed, ways to be
the best person that you can be.

681
00:46:11,729 –> 00:46:16,680
And being able to be there for someone
else really makes you feel special

682
00:46:16,680 –> 00:46:20,129
and makes other people know that, you
know, you’re a person of character.

683
00:46:21,209 –> 00:46:24,629
And so even though we’re talking
about there are a growing amount of

684
00:46:24,629 –> 00:46:28,950
narcissists out there, I think there’s
a few more people that wouldn’t be

685
00:46:28,950 –> 00:46:32,040
considered a narcissist if they had
just a few little guidelines of what

686
00:46:32,040 –> 00:46:34,500
to do or how to get away from folks.

687
00:46:35,955 –> 00:46:37,065
It’s gonna be a better world.

688
00:46:37,904 –> 00:46:40,845
We’ll make it better
one podcast at a time.

689
00:46:42,435 –> 00:46:44,504
That’s what we’re out here doing, Barbara.

690
00:46:44,835 –> 00:46:48,944
And I, I can’t say thank you
enough for sharing here today.

691
00:46:49,305 –> 00:46:54,075
Could you tell people how to reach
out to you, get involved with

692
00:46:54,075 –> 00:46:56,055
you, and how to find your book?

693
00:46:56,504 –> 00:46:56,955
Sure.

694
00:46:56,955 –> 00:47:01,634
Well, my, my, this book right now, What
Not To Do At Funerals is on, uh, Amazon.

695
00:47:02,250 –> 00:47:04,649
So they can purchase it
there and download it there.

696
00:47:04,799 –> 00:47:10,620
They can also go to bowheart.com, which
is my business, and it discusses a

697
00:47:10,620 –> 00:47:14,410
little bit more about, about my books
and how to contact me at Bowheart.

698
00:47:14,970 –> 00:47:17,640
And if they have any suggestions or
things they would wanna make sure

699
00:47:17,640 –> 00:47:21,029
that I put in the book, I would love
to, for them to pass that on to me.

700
00:47:21,390 –> 00:47:27,359
So at either bowheart.com, just
like it sounds, bow heart, um, or

701
00:47:27,359 –> 00:47:29,730
What Not To Do At Funerals, we’ll
get you all that information.

702
00:47:31,230 –> 00:47:31,980
All right.

703
00:47:32,250 –> 00:47:35,910
Well, I enjoyed our
conversation today, Barbara.

704
00:47:35,910 –> 00:47:36,930
Thank you for being here.

705
00:47:38,220 –> 00:47:40,560
My pleasure, thank you so much.

706
00:47:44,069 –> 00:47:45,720
Thank you for joining us today.

707
00:47:46,380 –> 00:47:52,589
If you found this podcast enlightening,
entertaining, educational in any way,

708
00:47:53,370 –> 00:47:59,790
please share, like, subscribe, and join
us right back here next week for another

709
00:47:59,790 –> 00:48:03,210
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.

710
00:48:03,480 –> 00:48:09,020
I’m Ed Watters, your host, enjoy
your afternoon wherever you might be.