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To overcome, you must educate.

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Educate not only yourself, but
educate anyone seeking to learn.

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We are all Dead America,
we can all learn something.

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To learn, we must challenge
what we already understand.

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The way we do that is
through conversation.

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Sometimes we have conversations with
others, however, some of the best

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conversations happen with ourselves.

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Reach out and challenge yourself; let’s
dive in and learn something new right now.

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Today, we are speaking
with Keeper Catran Whitney.

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He is an author, his book, Helplessness.

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This is a fascinating and riveting story.

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And I want to tell people up front,
this might trigger many people.

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So grab your coffee, beverage, and
let’s get into this gripping tale.

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Keeper, could you please introduce
yourself and let people know just

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a little bit about you, please?

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Well, I appreciate, uh, having
me here on Dead America.

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Uh, as you said, you got the name
right, the pronunciation right.

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So kudos to you.

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Catran Whitney.

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I am the author of the book, Helplessness,
the Emotional Health Challenges Brothers

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Experience once We Learn Our Sisters
Have Been Sexually Abused By Our Parents.

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It is a brother’s story in, from,
in large perspective, but it’s also

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my family’s story of what me and
my three brothers experienced once

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we learned what happened and how we
were locked out of the conversation.

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And the journey to go from helplessness

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to what is Hopefulness, which is the
book I’m writing now, to Happiness, which

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will be the third book in the series.

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So you get a, you get a look
inside of, of what happens.

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And so there’s that exploration and you’ll
also get answers to what happened and

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part of the healing journey that it took
for me to get through my sisters and find

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who I am as a brother in the process.

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You know, that’s the very difficult part
and I, up front, want to commend you

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for the journey that you’ve taken and
it’s very inspirational for many of us.

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I, I myself, I’m traversing this
story per se in my own world.

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Slightly different, but the waters are
navigable the same, and it’s devastating.

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If, if you live within sexual abuse in any
form, the story gets pretty deep quickly.

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Let’s start off at the very
beginning when, you know, before

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things were uncovered for you.

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You were right at the doorstep
of fame and fortune with your

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entire family and that must have
been a great feeling at the time.

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And then you get called into this family
meeting and it devastates everything.

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Could you walk us through
those early years?

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Sure.

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I come from a family of ten, four boys,
four girls, my mother and my stepfather.

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Uh, my biological father,
uh, my mother left him.

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Um, we lived in Portland, Oregon in
my early years, so an area I imagine

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that you’re pretty familiar with, Ed.

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And so, uh, we leave Portland and
my mother, uh, meets this guy and

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he ends up becoming our stepfather.

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We were incredibly poor.

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I lived in twenty-one different places
before I moved out, homeless three times.

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I went to eleven grade schools
before I graduated high school,

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my life was a constant turmoil.

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In 1971, uh, we could barely pay
an eighty dollar a month rent.

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And so I was used to going into
the streets and getting bottles

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and turning them in for a pound of
ground beef, you know, you get the

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money for those, or a bag of rice.

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Also, during 1971, The Jackson
5 were really, really big.

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I mean, they were everywhere.

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It was Who’s Loving You,
ABC, I want you back.

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I mean, it was everywhere.

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And every little kid in the world,
not just in America, wanted to be

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Michael Jackson and The Jackson 5.

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My mother, absolutely, my mother,
Um, who is also a great singer,

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got together with her brother and
sister and they started singing.

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But as good as they were, they couldn’t
make enough money to make ends meet.

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So one day, she hears her kids singing
around the house, singing The Jackson 5.

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And she stopped and she said,
Would you guys like to sing?

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Because as a singing family,
we could make more money.

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We’re like, Yeah, of course.

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The next thing you know,
The Whitney Family is born.

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Me, my three brothers, my four sisters,
my mother, my stepfather, we are singing

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in after hour clubs all over Los Angeles.

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My life was, at the two o’clock in
the morning, get up, go to school,

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rehearse, do it all over again.

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One day we are singing, uh,
at rehearsal and the phone

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rings and my mother says, Shh.

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And she picks up the
phone and she says, Hello?

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Who?

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And

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she looks at us and says,
Michael Jackson’s on the phone.

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Yeah, that Michael Jackson’s calling
our house, soon to be king of pop.

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He wants to speak to the brother directly
underneath me, child number four.

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I am number two.

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My brother gets on the
phone and says, Hello?

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All excited.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And hangs up the phone and
then screams and says, Michael

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Jackson said he’s heard of us.

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Said he’s heard I sing
and dance just like him.

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Keep going, we’ll get there someday.

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That’s 1971.

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Jump cut to 1977, and we are everywhere.

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We’re doing concerts, we’re in
magazines, we’re doing TV shows.

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We’re with United Artists Records, we
have made the coveted Billboard’s Top

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100 not once, not twice, but three times.

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Two singles and an album.

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Everything Michael Jackson
said is coming to fruition,

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we are hot.

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It’s also the same year Motown, who
had The Jackson 5 three years earlier

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because they had lost them to Epic
Records, had just completed their

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exhaustive three year search to find
the family group to replace them.

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And guess who they landed on?

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Us, we were the group.

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Where they had one lead
singer, we had nine.

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My mother and all eight of
us kids could lead sing.

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We all sing background.

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Me and my brothers, we
all played instruments.

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We were everywhere.

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Motown had just picked us to replace them.

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So as far as I was concerned, I was
about sixteen or seventeen, the bus

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was outside, the engine was warm, the
seats were warm, all we had to do was

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step onto the bus and we were gone.

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No more abject poverty, no more having
to depend on the record company to pay

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our rent, to feed us, to get us clothes.

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All that was done.

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We had, we made it out of South
Central L. A. at the time.

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So on a Saturday morning we have a
family meeting because we know on

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Thursday or Friday coming up, we’re
going to sign the largest new artist

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contract Motown offered any new group.

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Larger than The Jackson 5, larger than
The Supremes, larger than The Four

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Tops, larger than The Temptations,
larger than everyone, ever.

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TV show was already locked in.

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I have the pilot script
in my office right now.

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So my sister screams upstairs, Boys,
come downstairs, family meeting!

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And we all come running downstairs.

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We are so hyped.

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This is it, we are finally
out of this hell hole.

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No more going to the park to
go get government cheese, to

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go get powdered milk, to go get
powdered, it’s, it’s, it’s over.

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Everything, as I said, Michael
Jackson said for us to do, and

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the rewards behind it, it’s today.

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I go into the living room, and when I
enter, my oldest sister’s pacing back

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and forth in front of the entryway.

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And she’s mad, she’s angry.

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Okay, she’s always mad, she’s angry.

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She and my mom were always at loggerheads.

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I mean, they’re battling
each other all the time.

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In fact, earlier that day, there
was a screaming match between my

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mother and my three youngest sisters.

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I’m just thinking, It’s just
the girls being the girls.

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Okay, cool.

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Cause that’s, that’s, happened too.

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But when I walk into the living room,
I look at the couch and at the far

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end are my three youngest sisters,
the three youngest of us eight.

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The two youngest are twins.

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They’re huddled in a corner of
the couch and they’re not saying

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anything, which is really strange
because all they did was talk.

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They laugh, they talk, they tease,
they play, that’s all they did.

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It, it, it, it, that was my family,
that’s all we did, as close as we were.

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So I’m looking at them and I’m thinking,
That’s odd, they’re not saying a word.

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Why?

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At the other end of the couch
are my two youngest brothers.

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They’re also quiet, but
they’re confused like I am.

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Because our sisters
aren’t saying anything.

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And my oldest sister is pacing back
and forth across the archway like,

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okay?

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My oldest brother is standing at the
far end of the couch behind my three

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youngest sisters, and I lock eyes on him.

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And we just kind of
shrugged, what’s the deal?

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This is going to be the happiest
day of our life, everything’s

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about to change for us.

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So we just kind of shrugged, Oh, okay.

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This is really strange.

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But I take my seat on the couch between
my three youngest sisters and my two

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youngest brothers, and I just wait.

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And within seconds, my mother
and my stepfather enter.

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We have a recliner in the living room,
this brown recliner that clashes against

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this violently green, ugly carpet.

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My stepfather, who’s 6’6/250 pounds
and wears a huge Afro wig, puts his

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head over seven feet tall, walks
and sits down in the recliner.

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But he does something really strange, he
bends over and puts his hands in his face.

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And I think, Is he sick?

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Huh?

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My mother, who’s usually bubbly like her
eight kids, has, she’s just stone faced.

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She walks in and doesn’t say a word.

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Walks to the far end of the living room,
stands next to this large plate glass

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window that overlooked the outside.

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And she spins around,

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and she just looks, scanning the
room, looking at her eight children.

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But she pauses at my oldest sister,
and if looks could kill, they

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would have killed each other.

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I’m a brother, I have no
idea what’s happening.

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I don’t have a clue, but my sisters do.

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Because earlier that day, I would find
out later, what they were arguing about

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is what me and my three brothers are
about to learn for the very first time.

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I live in California now and we
have earthquakes all the time.

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In fact, we had another one this
morning, we had two last week, and we

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had two or three a week before that.

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Okay, earthquakes, they uproot trees,
they crack bridges, they crack freeways.

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Get you some concrete, get you
some nails, get you some rebar,

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top, top, top, top, top spit,
gum, hammer, put it back together.

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You’re on your way.

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Those are material.

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Emotional earthquakes are a
different matter altogether.

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You do not come back from those
quickly and you rarely ever

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come back from those completely.

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Because they become a part of
you, they are now who you are.

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My three brothers and I are about to be
hit with three emotional earthquakes, Ed.

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We are about to be hit with words no
brother ever expects to hear, the words

201
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no brother could ever prepare for.

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My mother drops earthquake number
one when she finally speaks.

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She says,

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your stepfather has been
molesting your sisters for years.

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Wait, what did you say?

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He’s been doing what?

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00:13:24,925 –> 00:13:27,295
This is obviously not the
meeting I’m expecting.

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I am knocked backward emotionally.

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I don’t know what to do with
this, I am becoming paralyzed.

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And so because it was the last thing I
expected to hear and I couldn’t prepare

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00:13:46,805 –> 00:13:48,675
for it, I’m pretty slow on the uptake.

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But what I hear is apartment, I
hear park, and I hear liquor store.

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But I’m dropping emotionally.

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What just happened?

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00:14:01,980 –> 00:14:02,780
No!

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00:14:04,110 –> 00:14:07,180
And then she hits us with
earthquake number three.

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00:14:10,340 –> 00:14:16,560
She says, I have known all along.

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00:14:18,449 –> 00:14:20,719
Wait, you’ve known what all along?

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00:14:23,990 –> 00:14:31,630
I imagine my three brothers are
just like me, PTSD is engulfing us.

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00:14:31,860 –> 00:14:34,940
I had no idea what PTSD was at the time.

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00:14:36,030 –> 00:14:42,205
But the shock and disbelief and
the betrayal of what we just heard,

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00:14:42,255 –> 00:14:43,715
my mother has known all along.

223
00:14:43,715 –> 00:14:46,984
You mean to tell me you have known he
has been molesting your daughters for

224
00:14:46,984 –> 00:14:49,005
years and you’ve done nothing about it?

225
00:14:49,005 –> 00:14:49,484
It

226
00:14:51,864 –> 00:14:56,784
turns out what my mother and
sisters were arguing about earlier

227
00:14:56,784 –> 00:15:02,930
that day was they were forcing
my mother to tell the boys today.

228
00:15:03,660 –> 00:15:09,830
This is the day we let the boys know
what has been going on with us, what

229
00:15:09,830 –> 00:15:14,659
has been going on in this house, what
has been impacting the entire family.

230
00:15:14,670 –> 00:15:17,739
The deep, dark family secret.

231
00:15:19,770 –> 00:15:23,970
It went a long way to explaining
my younger sisters being quiet

232
00:15:24,030 –> 00:15:26,360
because they knew what was coming.

233
00:15:27,435 –> 00:15:32,295
And of course they did, because they’ve
already been experiencing it since 1971,

234
00:15:32,325 –> 00:15:34,545
the year Michael Jackson called our house.

235
00:15:35,145 –> 00:15:39,894
When they were five and six years old is
when my stepdad went after them and my

236
00:15:39,925 –> 00:15:42,730
oldest sister was about ten or eleven.

237
00:15:43,145 –> 00:15:44,364
So they already knew.

238
00:15:44,395 –> 00:15:47,914
The only people who did
not know were the brothers.

239
00:15:50,655 –> 00:15:55,275
We did not know how to
handle what was happening.

240
00:15:55,315 –> 00:16:02,010
But as traumatic as that was,
those first two earthquakes did not

241
00:16:02,010 –> 00:16:05,440
compare to what the third one was.

242
00:16:06,400 –> 00:16:11,240
Because the third one is what
puts a brother in a box, it is

243
00:16:11,240 –> 00:16:16,629
what prevents him from being a
participant in the conversation.

244
00:16:17,659 –> 00:16:25,310
My oldest sister who was still
angry, spins around and points a

245
00:16:25,310 –> 00:16:29,350
finger at her four innocent brothers
and says, You can’t talk about it.

246
00:16:29,940 –> 00:16:31,150
It didn’t happen to you.

247
00:16:31,150 –> 00:16:34,460
It only happened to us girls,
you can’t talk about it ever.

248
00:16:34,490 –> 00:16:39,660
And like that, relationships between
brothers and sisters that were so tight,

249
00:16:40,290 –> 00:16:47,140
were so much fun, were so important to us,
lay on the living room floor in shambles.

250
00:16:47,670 –> 00:16:51,150
My family was broken, we were lost.

251
00:16:51,150 –> 00:16:56,280
I had just lost the nine most
important people in my life.

252
00:16:58,910 –> 00:17:05,750
I’m a brother, I don’t know what
to do, I am in total free fall.

253
00:17:05,820 –> 00:17:09,599
The void is getting darker and
darker and there’s no way to arrest

254
00:17:09,599 –> 00:17:11,669
the descent, I’m dropping so fast.

255
00:17:11,669 –> 00:17:15,840
And I know for sure my three
other brothers as well.

256
00:17:15,840 –> 00:17:22,970
Guilt is starting to settle in, self blame
is starting to settle in, shame, fear,

257
00:17:22,970 –> 00:17:26,849
anxiety, all of it is settling on me.

258
00:17:26,869 –> 00:17:28,800
And I don’t know what to do.

259
00:17:30,380 –> 00:17:36,070
My book, Helplessness, recounts the
story, and it is very, very deep.

260
00:17:36,280 –> 00:17:38,300
It gets to be very, very dark.

261
00:17:38,330 –> 00:17:44,989
In many ways, this is the light part
of the story about what happened to us.

262
00:17:46,390 –> 00:17:50,770
But I write Helplessness because I have
come to learn over the years, it took

263
00:17:50,770 –> 00:17:56,690
me ten years to write it, that there
are so many brothers out there who

264
00:17:56,690 –> 00:18:00,840
are not allowed to participate in the
conversation once we learn what happened.

265
00:18:01,405 –> 00:18:10,445
Because once we learn what happens, every
other group, the predator, those people

266
00:18:10,445 –> 00:18:14,565
who empower them, and the victims are
allowed to be a part of the conversation.

267
00:18:14,575 –> 00:18:17,955
But when my oldest sister said,
We can’t talk about it, we

268
00:18:17,955 –> 00:18:19,355
were just told we don’t matter.

269
00:18:20,545 –> 00:18:22,454
Our voices don’t matter.

270
00:18:23,115 –> 00:18:28,150
You brothers, you boys, we’re going
to put you in a box and you have

271
00:18:28,150 –> 00:18:33,180
to deal with your trauma without
any questions being answered.

272
00:18:33,180 –> 00:18:35,020
There was no help coming our way.

273
00:18:36,399 –> 00:18:40,200
And so I write Helplessness to
bring voice to the brothers.

274
00:18:40,670 –> 00:18:44,829
And there are so many of us who
learn about our sisters, but aren’t

275
00:18:44,909 –> 00:18:49,070
allowed to, as I say, I mean, I
pretty much say it like this, we

276
00:18:49,070 –> 00:18:53,290
are told we can’t participate in the
conversation, but we are expected

277
00:18:53,320 –> 00:18:56,750
to answer for our non participation.

278
00:18:58,780 –> 00:18:59,800
So what do you do?

279
00:19:00,850 –> 00:19:08,280
How do you give a voice to a group in the
family who is not allowed to participate?

280
00:19:08,889 –> 00:19:13,639
Who is put on a shelf in a closet and
tucked away and the key is locked and

281
00:19:14,119 –> 00:19:16,169
you’re locked in a box and you’re tossed.

282
00:19:16,769 –> 00:19:18,579
And so, this is what I do.

283
00:19:19,325 –> 00:19:23,575
I elevate the voices of brothers so we can
participate in a conversation where there

284
00:19:23,575 –> 00:19:27,065
are no tools, there are no systems for us.

285
00:19:27,075 –> 00:19:31,184
For girls and for women, they can go
to any library, you can go to many

286
00:19:31,184 –> 00:19:35,974
bookstores, and you will find books, you
will find articles, unfortunately, you

287
00:19:35,974 –> 00:19:37,834
will find hundreds of thousands of them.

288
00:19:38,485 –> 00:19:39,775
It is unfortunate.

289
00:19:40,255 –> 00:19:44,345
And you’ll get a documentary, you’ll
get a miniseries, you’ll get a

290
00:19:44,345 –> 00:19:50,205
movie about it, you may even get
a movie, or book, or miniseries

291
00:19:50,255 –> 00:19:52,355
about the Predators who do this.

292
00:19:52,735 –> 00:19:56,325
But no one ever asked the brothers,
no one ever asked, Are you okay?

293
00:19:57,475 –> 00:19:58,415
Do you need to talk?

294
00:19:58,415 –> 00:20:00,085
Is there anything you need?

295
00:20:01,095 –> 00:20:03,345
We have absolutely nothing.

296
00:20:05,124 –> 00:20:10,345
And if we’re going to close the
loop around child sexual abuse, it

297
00:20:10,355 –> 00:20:15,205
just can’t be those of us who have
been sexually abused, we also have

298
00:20:15,205 –> 00:20:17,245
to look at the collateral damage.

299
00:20:18,545 –> 00:20:21,285
Oftentimes when I speak, and I know
you, I know you have a bunch of

300
00:20:21,285 –> 00:20:25,825
questions, but I need to say this up
front because oftentimes when I speak,

301
00:20:27,135 –> 00:20:33,504
there invariably is a woman who will
say your sister’s right, you can’t talk

302
00:20:33,515 –> 00:20:35,195
about it, it didn’t happen to you boys.

303
00:20:35,205 –> 00:20:38,305
And I share these two things,

304
00:20:40,485 –> 00:20:47,704
I understand what my sister was
doing, but we are victims of this.

305
00:20:48,594 –> 00:20:51,935
One in the family has been
sexually abused, the entire

306
00:20:51,935 –> 00:20:53,105
family is sexually abused.

307
00:20:53,625 –> 00:20:56,205
Just because we don’t know about
it doesn’t mean we’re not impacted.

308
00:20:57,315 –> 00:20:58,615
And they’ll say, Well it
was just your sisters.

309
00:20:58,615 –> 00:20:59,525
And I’ll say, Okay.

310
00:21:01,625 –> 00:21:06,485
I will tell you this, my sisters were,
their sexual abuse started in 1971.

311
00:21:06,495 –> 00:21:11,935
In 1965, six years before my sisters
were sexually abused, my babysitter

312
00:21:12,715 –> 00:21:17,454
sexually abused me and my older
brother almost daily for six months.

313
00:21:18,584 –> 00:21:21,644
So I know both sides of
the sexual abuse coin.

314
00:21:21,685 –> 00:21:26,150
I understand the damage side
and the collateral damage side.

315
00:21:26,160 –> 00:21:32,900
And at that point, that’s when the
woman will say, Oh, I didn’t know.

316
00:21:33,190 –> 00:21:35,149
I said, Well, no, you didn’t know.

317
00:21:35,190 –> 00:21:38,750
But if we’re going to get into a
conversation of whose trauma is worse,

318
00:21:40,260 –> 00:21:44,840
we’re not gonna get anywhere, ultimately,
when it comes to solving this problem.

319
00:21:45,190 –> 00:21:52,150
We need to understand that everyone in the
family has been traumatized, everyone is

320
00:21:52,150 –> 00:21:54,069
being abused, whether they know it or not.

321
00:21:54,730 –> 00:22:00,419
So, uh, this is what I do, I
bring voice to brothers who are

322
00:22:00,419 –> 00:22:01,820
left out of the conversation.

323
00:22:02,689 –> 00:22:03,590
That’s strong.

324
00:22:03,990 –> 00:22:10,305
You know, if, if we really think
about what was just said, when

325
00:22:10,305 –> 00:22:15,855
we throw a rock in a pond, those
ripples, they keep going out.

326
00:22:17,195 –> 00:22:20,945
I live with a wife that was
sexually abused by her father,

327
00:22:21,084 –> 00:22:25,244
and it devastated her life.

328
00:22:25,244 –> 00:22:31,095
Still to this day, we’re working
continually on those ripples.

329
00:22:31,625 –> 00:22:37,765
Because it’s important to
give voice to the victim.

330
00:22:38,150 –> 00:22:46,200
And I want to highlight, there’s a lot
of denial in this type of behavior.

331
00:22:46,760 –> 00:22:55,600
I know from personal family experience,
when my sisters brought claims, It was,

332
00:22:55,980 –> 00:22:59,970
No, you’re lying, all of this denial.

333
00:23:00,900 –> 00:23:03,409
Did you face that within your family?

334
00:23:06,070 –> 00:23:09,030
No, we did not face denial.

335
00:23:09,390 –> 00:23:15,959
In fact, when we told aunts and uncles
what was going on, there was no denial.

336
00:23:15,960 –> 00:23:20,060
What we got was, We can’t
do anything about it.

337
00:23:20,910 –> 00:23:24,200
Why are you doing this to your mother?

338
00:23:24,200 –> 00:23:25,560
Why are you doing this?

339
00:23:26,825 –> 00:23:35,125
Because they were hoping that we were
going to be wealthy and rich and famous.

340
00:23:35,125 –> 00:23:41,525
And so this was going to be their chance
to grab on to our shirt, our coattails.

341
00:23:41,845 –> 00:23:43,495
We didn’t get that kind of denial.

342
00:23:43,995 –> 00:23:48,575
The denial of any sort was the
denial of our sisters that me

343
00:23:48,575 –> 00:23:49,934
and my brothers don’t matter.

344
00:23:49,935 –> 00:23:54,065
You guys are not in pain, you guys are
not in trauma, you guys are not worthy of

345
00:23:54,065 –> 00:23:59,815
attention, you are not, uh, uh, uh, uh,
you, you are not victimized in any way.

346
00:24:00,235 –> 00:24:07,855
And it took me a long time to, to
understand why my oldest sister,

347
00:24:07,885 –> 00:24:09,335
the number three of us, did that.

348
00:24:09,335 –> 00:24:13,445
She’s protecting herself and
ultimately she’s protecting her

349
00:24:13,485 –> 00:24:15,535
three, our three youngest sisters.

350
00:24:16,745 –> 00:24:20,995
But in the process, pushing
me and my brothers to the side

351
00:24:21,334 –> 00:24:26,945
and no one addressing, or even
giving us any consideration meant

352
00:24:26,975 –> 00:24:29,295
that we were left on our own.

353
00:24:29,295 –> 00:24:33,895
And I did try to find some sort of
book or an article that addressed

354
00:24:33,915 –> 00:24:37,385
the needs of brothers, which, of
course, there wasn’t at the time.

355
00:24:37,394 –> 00:24:38,705
This is 1977.

356
00:24:40,005 –> 00:24:44,694
It hasn’t been until recently that
men have begun to come out, thanks

357
00:24:44,695 –> 00:24:49,904
to celebrities, be them actors or
sports figures, and begin to talk

358
00:24:49,904 –> 00:24:51,754
about their direct victimhood,

359
00:24:53,015 –> 00:24:55,885
uh, when it comes to being
sexually abused as a child.

360
00:24:55,915 –> 00:25:00,895
We’re finally starting to have those
trickles of conversations, but we

361
00:25:00,895 –> 00:25:04,855
need more of them if we’re really
going to address the entire situation.

362
00:25:05,285 –> 00:25:06,514
So, we didn’t have that.

363
00:25:06,815 –> 00:25:15,495
My brothers and I, we were in severe
confusion and crisis and we started to go

364
00:25:15,495 –> 00:25:19,505
into this state of depression and anxiety.

365
00:25:19,915 –> 00:25:28,620
I am really, really sad to hear
that your wife experienced this and

366
00:25:28,620 –> 00:25:35,950
that you know what it’s like to work
with someone who, who, who is, not

367
00:25:35,950 –> 00:25:37,290
just close to you, but a loved one.

368
00:25:38,140 –> 00:25:39,919
Your, your, your partner.

369
00:25:40,540 –> 00:25:44,770
And try to help them navigate not
only their trauma, but there’s

370
00:25:44,780 –> 00:25:48,740
also a certain amount of trauma
that comes your way, uh, as you’re

371
00:25:48,750 –> 00:25:50,550
trying to help them sift through,

372
00:25:50,550 –> 00:25:53,199
you also got to sift
through yourself as well.

373
00:25:53,199 –> 00:25:55,870
Which was part of what
me and my brothers did.

374
00:25:56,090 –> 00:26:03,000
We, we, for me, part of the challenge
was my protective instincts start to

375
00:26:03,020 –> 00:26:06,580
kick in and you want to do something.

376
00:26:06,990 –> 00:26:11,205
And yet we’re told, Put that on pause.

377
00:26:11,355 –> 00:26:14,255
Don’t do anything.

378
00:26:14,525 –> 00:26:23,185
And I, I understood it later, I mean years
later, what that was about because it took

379
00:26:23,185 –> 00:26:26,275
me nine years to actually do something.

380
00:26:27,235 –> 00:26:29,905
Because my mother and my sister’s,
first of all, my sister said,

381
00:26:29,915 –> 00:26:30,955
Don’t, don’t do anything.

382
00:26:30,965 –> 00:26:34,685
You boys, we don’t want
you talking to anyone.

383
00:26:34,705 –> 00:26:35,855
We don’t want you doing anything.

384
00:26:35,855 –> 00:26:39,595
In fact, my brothers and I, we didn’t
even talk to ourselves about it.

385
00:26:39,635 –> 00:26:44,094
We were just so locked down
emotionally about, about it.

386
00:26:45,450 –> 00:26:48,570
And my mother saying, I will handle it.

387
00:26:48,610 –> 00:26:49,350
I will handle this.

388
00:26:49,360 –> 00:26:50,360
Well, she didn’t.

389
00:26:51,570 –> 00:26:56,110
And so my protective instincts, nine
years later, later in 1986, three months

390
00:26:56,110 –> 00:27:02,670
before I was to get married, they kicked
in big time because I could not imagine

391
00:27:02,689 –> 00:27:06,800
not handling the situation for my sisters.

392
00:27:06,899 –> 00:27:10,650
Because one of the things that I
believe, Ed, is that what it means

393
00:27:10,650 –> 00:27:16,140
to be a brother with sisters is,
your job is to protect their honor.

394
00:27:16,340 –> 00:27:17,600
And I hadn’t done that.

395
00:27:18,280 –> 00:27:23,779
And I know they had stopped it,
but that did not mean I wasn’t

396
00:27:23,789 –> 00:27:29,139
suffering self esteem blows and
my self worth wasn’t taking a hit.

397
00:27:30,600 –> 00:27:33,460
You know, and granted, my mother
saying that she’s gonna handle this,

398
00:27:33,460 –> 00:27:36,760
and all this is in the book, I, I
absolutely leave nothing behind.

399
00:27:36,770 –> 00:27:41,149
It is really a story of,
about me and what I could have

400
00:27:41,150 –> 00:27:42,230
done, what I should have done.

401
00:27:43,050 –> 00:27:46,710
It is, my mother saying
she’s gonna handle it.

402
00:27:47,210 –> 00:27:50,019
Okay, it was a warm blanket.

403
00:27:50,920 –> 00:27:54,390
It meant it was something that I
could, okay, the girls said don’t

404
00:27:54,390 –> 00:27:56,470
do anything, okay, it’s on them now.

405
00:27:57,400 –> 00:27:59,820
But as each day went by,

406
00:28:02,410 –> 00:28:07,939
I’m, I’m, and I’m seeing their faces,
and it’s like, Okay, you’re hearing

407
00:28:07,939 –> 00:28:11,849
the whispers, how come you didn’t
see my tears, how come you didn’t

408
00:28:11,849 –> 00:28:13,379
hear my weeping, how come, how come?

409
00:28:13,730 –> 00:28:17,070
Well, you said don’t do anything,
and the reason I didn’t hear is

410
00:28:17,070 –> 00:28:19,080
because you were under threat.

411
00:28:19,780 –> 00:28:23,830
If you said something, he was going
to hurt you so you didn’t tell us.

412
00:28:25,310 –> 00:28:28,450
If you said something, he told
you he was going to hurt your

413
00:28:28,450 –> 00:28:29,860
brothers so you didn’t say anything.

414
00:28:31,179 –> 00:28:33,370
It is part of the web.

415
00:28:33,460 –> 00:28:38,760
And, you know, what ends up
happening is when you had mentioned,

416
00:28:38,760 –> 00:28:41,309
you know, different people
and denial from other people,

417
00:28:41,720 –> 00:28:45,600
when you’ve got a predator and you’ve
gotten the power, like my mother,

418
00:28:45,830 –> 00:28:52,569
I, I, my description of it, they’re
in the center of this spider web and

419
00:28:52,570 –> 00:28:54,119
they’re just feeding on everybody.

420
00:28:54,940 –> 00:29:00,610
And as each person who knows who could
do something does nothing, the web gets

421
00:29:00,639 –> 00:29:03,359
wider and wider and wider and wider.

422
00:29:04,330 –> 00:29:06,240
And all those people who did
know anything, whether they know

423
00:29:06,240 –> 00:29:09,620
it or not, they are part of the
protective detail of the predator

424
00:29:10,740 –> 00:29:12,550
because you choose to step aside.

425
00:29:14,139 –> 00:29:15,870
And they don’t look at it like that.

426
00:29:15,880 –> 00:29:17,829
They just look at it, Well, I
don’t want to get in your business,

427
00:29:17,860 –> 00:29:19,380
but you’re in the business.

428
00:29:20,480 –> 00:29:23,700
As soon as you learned about it, you were
in the business and you let your nieces

429
00:29:23,700 –> 00:29:29,630
and nephews be devoured by this predator.

430
00:29:31,685 –> 00:29:34,235
Yes, I agree 100%.

431
00:29:34,795 –> 00:29:43,755
You know, it’s very interesting, my
wife, because I, I was like your sister.

432
00:29:44,864 –> 00:29:51,004
I listened to an interview that
you did, episode fifteen, your talk

433
00:29:51,004 –> 00:29:57,810
after forty-five, and your sister
said this, I didn’t want to hear it.

434
00:29:59,220 –> 00:30:03,880
That is so important for people
to understand, when we shut it

435
00:30:03,880 –> 00:30:10,250
off like that, so many assumptions
are made, so many opinions are

436
00:30:10,260 –> 00:30:13,950
formed, and it’s so dangerous.

437
00:30:14,689 –> 00:30:20,475
So stepping up when you are a victim,
letting people know it’s not okay,

438
00:30:20,495 –> 00:30:26,465
and I’m not okay with how you are
handling this, is very important.

439
00:30:26,515 –> 00:30:34,014
For instance, my wife, she was very
upset at me because I had that just shut

440
00:30:34,025 –> 00:30:40,385
up and let’s not stir the pot attitude
both with her family and my family.

441
00:30:40,985 –> 00:30:46,294
And it takes a strong individual to
step up and say, Can’t we do something?

442
00:30:47,285 –> 00:30:52,505
And that’s really what we’re doing here
today, is we’re doing something about it.

443
00:30:53,785 –> 00:31:00,565
My wife, I’ve helped empower her so
she’s writing letters to her siblings

444
00:31:00,765 –> 00:31:07,975
explaining what happened so that
their children are now protected

445
00:31:07,975 –> 00:31:10,465
because the awareness is there.

446
00:31:10,865 –> 00:31:12,965
I think that is very important.

447
00:31:12,965 –> 00:31:18,845
Could you talk to us about people
being aware of what is happening?

448
00:31:19,805 –> 00:31:25,275
The awareness is where
our power comes from.

449
00:31:25,325 –> 00:31:32,535
It is our singular power base, it’s
stepping in and owning our trauma.

450
00:31:34,095 –> 00:31:39,435
And before you can make
everyone else aware, you must

451
00:31:39,465 –> 00:31:42,295
be self aware of what happened.

452
00:31:42,915 –> 00:31:44,075
I’ll give you an example.

453
00:31:44,835 –> 00:31:47,455
I’m in the middle of
writing Helplessness, okay?

454
00:31:47,475 –> 00:31:48,705
Like I said, it took me ten years.

455
00:31:49,265 –> 00:31:54,744
And at around year seven or eight,
I’m in the bed and I’m talking

456
00:31:54,745 –> 00:31:58,445
to my wife about what happened
in the section that I’m writing.

457
00:32:00,085 –> 00:32:02,855
And I’m telling her, Well,
this happened to this.

458
00:32:02,855 –> 00:32:05,985
I’m in the section here and it’s
really just giving me a problem.

459
00:32:05,985 –> 00:32:10,655
And she looks at me and she
says, You know, you’re a victim.

460
00:32:11,890 –> 00:32:14,650
And I looked at her and
I said, No, I’m not.

461
00:32:16,520 –> 00:32:18,930
Of course you’re a victim,
how can you not be a victim?

462
00:32:19,390 –> 00:32:22,520
I said, well, no, I’m just telling
you what this section is about and

463
00:32:22,640 –> 00:32:26,790
what it’s, Look at you, you’re a mess.

464
00:32:27,250 –> 00:32:31,249
You’re sweating, you’re shaking,
you could hardly even talk about it.

465
00:32:31,860 –> 00:32:34,499
But, but, You’re a victim.

466
00:32:35,959 –> 00:32:37,109
That is when it hit me.

467
00:32:37,299 –> 00:32:46,510
I’m fifty-seven years old and I, I didn’t
even recognize when my babysitter molested

468
00:32:46,510 –> 00:32:49,200
me almost daily, as me being a victim.

469
00:32:49,500 –> 00:32:53,180
So it wasn’t until I was
fifty-seven that I became aware

470
00:32:54,020 –> 00:32:56,789
of my trauma, of my victimhood.

471
00:32:56,830 –> 00:33:01,899
I, I can’t even get to the place of being
called a survivor unless I could first

472
00:33:01,899 –> 00:33:04,550
recognize that I’m a victim, period.

473
00:33:05,419 –> 00:33:09,110
And once you recognize you’re
a victim, now you can be put on

474
00:33:09,110 –> 00:33:10,980
the path to some sort of healing.

475
00:33:11,760 –> 00:33:18,005
Once you do that, the next step is
you must talk to someone about it.

476
00:33:18,455 –> 00:33:19,785
Ed, that’s the hardest part.

477
00:33:20,155 –> 00:33:26,505
But once you talk about it, you are
now aware, and you own your space, and

478
00:33:26,505 –> 00:33:31,724
you step into that space, and you just
plant your feet and you do not move, and

479
00:33:31,724 –> 00:33:35,314
you tell someone, you become empowered.

480
00:33:36,410 –> 00:33:39,500
It’s liberating the awareness.

481
00:33:40,140 –> 00:33:46,589
But the problem when we are not self
aware first, I look at it as part

482
00:33:46,590 –> 00:33:52,370
of DNA, DNA replicates throughout
our bodies all day, every day.

483
00:33:53,040 –> 00:33:56,779
And in most ways, they replicate
in ways we don’t even understand.

484
00:33:56,779 –> 00:33:57,660
We don’t even see it.

485
00:33:57,760 –> 00:34:02,535
And most of the time it’s good, but
there are times when it’s really bad.

486
00:34:02,715 –> 00:34:03,805
And you’re not even aware of it.

487
00:34:04,505 –> 00:34:07,375
Emotional trauma is the
same way, it’s like DNA.

488
00:34:07,375 –> 00:34:09,855
It is a part of you, it
is not going anywhere.

489
00:34:09,895 –> 00:34:12,945
It is part of your marrow,
I like to describe, it is

490
00:34:13,025 –> 00:34:15,124
all over you, in every cell.

491
00:34:17,235 –> 00:34:21,655
And it replicates oftentimes in
ways we do not understand, but

492
00:34:21,665 –> 00:34:23,285
oftentimes in ways that are dark.

493
00:34:24,535 –> 00:34:28,955
They begin to impact our relationships
with our loved ones, with our

494
00:34:28,955 –> 00:34:33,155
wives, with our children, with
our co workers, with our friends.

495
00:34:33,155 –> 00:34:36,534
They impact us and impact
how we communicate, how we

496
00:34:36,534 –> 00:34:37,994
work, how we view the world.

497
00:34:37,994 –> 00:34:38,244
It impacts,

498
00:34:38,690 –> 00:34:42,690
and we’re not always aware of
that being the reason behind it.

499
00:34:43,710 –> 00:34:47,560
I had no idea that that
was happening to me.

500
00:34:47,940 –> 00:34:51,359
And like I said, it wasn’t
until my wife mentioned that.

501
00:34:51,370 –> 00:34:59,615
But when my, when my son was born,
he’s, we’ve had multiple last names.

502
00:34:59,655 –> 00:35:04,505
My father’s last name was Leary, and
when my mother left town, she decided to

503
00:35:04,515 –> 00:35:07,685
give us the last name of our stepfather.

504
00:35:09,145 –> 00:35:16,975
And so my wife and I, we took her
last name and we became Catran-Perrin.

505
00:35:17,775 –> 00:35:21,985
And so one day, my son comes home
from school with a report card.

506
00:35:22,845 –> 00:35:26,025
And this is the awareness, because
you’re absolutely correct with the

507
00:35:26,035 –> 00:35:28,085
ripple effect, it becomes generational.

508
00:35:28,960 –> 00:35:32,470
It does not slow down, it
just gets wider, wider.

509
00:35:32,690 –> 00:35:36,570
And people look at a ripple and think
it just goes wide, it goes deep.

510
00:35:37,670 –> 00:35:40,890
You know, though that pressure
of the rock hitting the lake,

511
00:35:41,010 –> 00:35:42,850
it goes deep and it spreads.

512
00:35:43,210 –> 00:35:44,539
It’s not just on the surface.

513
00:35:44,570 –> 00:35:47,509
People don’t look at it as a generational
thing, but that’s exactly what happens.

514
00:35:47,789 –> 00:35:51,240
So my son brings home a report card
and I’m looking at the last name on the

515
00:35:51,240 –> 00:35:57,740
report card and I start getting mad,
because I see the last name Perrin on it.

516
00:35:58,440 –> 00:36:04,475
Or my favorite, for years, my favorite
steak sauce was Lee and Perrin’s.

517
00:36:05,485 –> 00:36:09,515
But every time I bought the steak sauce,
I hated to see the name Perrin on there.

518
00:36:09,655 –> 00:36:11,805
So I would reach to the shelf
and I would turn it around.

519
00:36:11,984 –> 00:36:13,425
In fact, it’d be in our pantry.

520
00:36:13,644 –> 00:36:16,205
The label would be spun around,
so I didn’t have to see the name

521
00:36:16,325 –> 00:36:17,555
Perrin and I didn’t understand it.

522
00:36:19,845 –> 00:36:23,285
But it’s, it’s eating me
away, it’s eating away at me.

523
00:36:24,575 –> 00:36:31,394
So when I saw my son’s name on the report
card this one particular day, I started

524
00:36:31,394 –> 00:36:33,914
to get angry and then I stopped myself.

525
00:36:34,025 –> 00:36:39,855
Oh my goodness, I am passing
this trauma down to my son.

526
00:36:41,265 –> 00:36:42,565
He has no idea.

527
00:36:44,655 –> 00:36:47,975
Even if it’s minuscule,
he doesn’t deserve it.

528
00:36:50,865 –> 00:36:54,314
I had no idea just how this works.

529
00:36:55,055 –> 00:36:58,854
And that’s part of what happens
when you’re talking about the impact

530
00:36:58,854 –> 00:37:01,315
and awareness of other people.

531
00:37:02,155 –> 00:37:06,625
So it’s not just us, it impacts
so many other people in our lives.

532
00:37:07,995 –> 00:37:11,955
You know, that’s, that’s
such knowledge there.

533
00:37:12,354 –> 00:37:17,015
I, I really want to highlight
one more important thing here,

534
00:37:17,405 –> 00:37:23,824
there’s a misconception that
poverty brings this behavior on.

535
00:37:25,364 –> 00:37:32,815
I don’t necessarily agree with that
at all, because it happens everywhere.

536
00:37:33,565 –> 00:37:35,625
What is your opinion on that?

537
00:37:36,895 –> 00:37:39,665
I have an opinion, and I have
a story that illustrates that.

538
00:37:40,085 –> 00:37:43,265
You’re absolutely correct, people
think it has to do with poverty.

539
00:37:43,365 –> 00:37:47,365
And oftentimes people think it
has to do more, this abuse takes

540
00:37:47,365 –> 00:37:48,915
place within the Black community.

541
00:37:48,915 –> 00:37:51,844
There is no other community,
there’s no other race in the United

542
00:37:51,844 –> 00:37:53,005
States where it happens more.

543
00:37:53,195 –> 00:37:56,205
But this crosses every race,
every religion, politics.

544
00:37:56,405 –> 00:38:00,584
It crosses wealth, it crosses
education, it crosses waters, it crosses

545
00:38:00,905 –> 00:38:03,805
every aspect of life on the planet.

546
00:38:05,210 –> 00:38:06,690
It crosses borders.

547
00:38:07,360 –> 00:38:09,750
We have an epidemic of child sexual abuse.

548
00:38:12,390 –> 00:38:16,500
The greatest example that I
could give anyone is my father

549
00:38:16,509 –> 00:38:19,160
in law, who I absolutely love.

550
00:38:20,359 –> 00:38:25,260
He passed away about five
years ago, he passed away.

551
00:38:27,510 –> 00:38:30,379
He’s ninety-five years
old, ninety-six years old.

552
00:38:30,409 –> 00:38:33,300
He’s white, and he’s Jewish.

553
00:38:33,850 –> 00:38:35,960
We could not be more opposite.

554
00:38:37,160 –> 00:38:38,550
He grew up on the East Coast,

555
00:38:38,550 –> 00:38:40,560
I grew up on the West Coast, West Coast.

556
00:38:40,790 –> 00:38:44,000
He grew up in a middle class
family, I obviously did not.

557
00:38:44,530 –> 00:38:49,060
He created a life for he and
his family I never, ever saw.

558
00:38:49,980 –> 00:38:51,680
He did incredibly well.

559
00:38:53,390 –> 00:38:56,109
And here I am, his black son in law.

560
00:38:56,570 –> 00:38:59,850
He’s got a white Jewish son
in law and he’s got a white

561
00:38:59,909 –> 00:39:01,220
Greek Catholic son in law.

562
00:39:01,270 –> 00:39:02,590
So we’re kind of all mixed up.

563
00:39:03,010 –> 00:39:03,940
It’s wonderful.

564
00:39:07,130 –> 00:39:10,440
Shortly before he dies,
he calls me to the house.

565
00:39:12,100 –> 00:39:15,200
I said, Okay, dad, I’ll be
over, I’ll be, I’m on the way.

566
00:39:15,430 –> 00:39:18,260
I get to the house and I immediately
recognize that my mother in law’s

567
00:39:18,290 –> 00:39:21,110
not there, which is really odd
because they’re always together.

568
00:39:21,860 –> 00:39:23,880
But for some reason,
she’s not there that day.

569
00:39:24,050 –> 00:39:27,260
Dad is sitting at the dining
room table, and he signals to me,

570
00:39:27,310 –> 00:39:29,140
come over, I want you to have a
seat at the dining room table.

571
00:39:29,140 –> 00:39:29,700
Okay, dad.

572
00:39:29,820 –> 00:39:30,360
So I sit down.

573
00:39:30,440 –> 00:39:31,170
Everything okay?

574
00:39:32,240 –> 00:39:32,820
He says, Yeah.

575
00:39:34,160 –> 00:39:39,430
And he looks at me, and he says,
I want you to know, I understand.

576
00:39:41,790 –> 00:39:42,600
You understand?

577
00:39:43,140 –> 00:39:44,610
What, what are you talking about?

578
00:39:45,430 –> 00:39:48,950
And then he pats the book in
front of him and I look down and

579
00:39:48,970 –> 00:39:51,470
there’s my book, Helplessness.

580
00:39:51,590 –> 00:39:51,720
I

581
00:39:54,080 –> 00:39:55,560
want you to know I understand.

582
00:39:57,960 –> 00:39:59,120
You understand what?

583
00:40:02,230 –> 00:40:04,260
He says, I’m going to tell you a story.

584
00:40:05,590 –> 00:40:10,140
You cannot tell anyone until I pass away.

585
00:40:11,199 –> 00:40:15,639
I have only told one person this story
in my life and that’s your mother

586
00:40:15,639 –> 00:40:18,310
in law and she can’t tell anybody.

587
00:40:19,180 –> 00:40:21,500
After I pass away, you
can share this story.

588
00:40:22,660 –> 00:40:25,550
So I sit back, where is this going?

589
00:40:28,870 –> 00:40:33,230
He says, when I was a little boy,
lived in New York, Brooklyn, we

590
00:40:33,230 –> 00:40:34,430
lived in a two story apartment.

591
00:40:35,040 –> 00:40:38,030
But there was a downstairs and an
upstairs, we were downstairs and

592
00:40:38,030 –> 00:40:39,890
our best friends lived upstairs.

593
00:40:40,200 –> 00:40:43,400
We were so close as friends, we
always left our front door open.

594
00:40:44,380 –> 00:40:45,280
Both families did.

595
00:40:45,979 –> 00:40:50,699
Our kids, as little kids, you played
with that family, they came downstairs,

596
00:40:50,759 –> 00:40:53,719
they come into our apartment, we
go into their apartment, everyone,

597
00:40:53,729 –> 00:40:55,029
we were just one big family.

598
00:40:56,565 –> 00:40:57,345
One day,

599
00:40:59,765 –> 00:41:03,055
I went upstairs, I was sent to get
something, I don’t remember what it is.

600
00:41:03,085 –> 00:41:06,165
But I go into the apartment, the
door is open, I just open it, and

601
00:41:06,175 –> 00:41:07,835
I walk in, and no one’s there.

602
00:41:09,575 –> 00:41:12,815
So I just look around, okay,
and then I hear something

603
00:41:13,424 –> 00:41:15,015
coming from one of the bedrooms.

604
00:41:17,045 –> 00:41:21,944
I walk over, and, and I’m starting
to get really nervous now.

605
00:41:22,955 –> 00:41:24,275
I go, Okay.

606
00:41:26,435 –> 00:41:27,035
All right.

607
00:41:28,945 –> 00:41:32,605
And then I see a tear forming in his eye.

608
00:41:32,615 –> 00:41:34,275
I’m like, What’s happening here?

609
00:41:36,265 –> 00:41:42,185
I open the door and I see the
father molesting my older sister,

610
00:41:43,115 –> 00:41:44,745
and I stand in the doorway,

611
00:41:47,785 –> 00:41:50,495
and I don’t know what to do.

612
00:41:50,495 –> 00:41:54,365
I turn around, and I walk back
downstairs, and I don’t say a word.

613
00:41:55,485 –> 00:41:57,375
I don’t tell my mother,
I don’t tell my father.

614
00:41:57,375 –> 00:42:02,324
When my older sister comes downstairs,
we don’t say a word about it.

615
00:42:03,804 –> 00:42:04,824
I did nothing.

616
00:42:08,334 –> 00:42:12,034
Two months later, it happened again.

617
00:42:12,954 –> 00:42:16,855
The same thing and I did nothing.

618
00:42:19,505 –> 00:42:21,155
I want you to know I understand.

619
00:42:22,330 –> 00:42:27,540
I understand your guilt, your
blame, your shame, I understand

620
00:42:27,600 –> 00:42:29,340
the depression, the isolation.

621
00:42:30,050 –> 00:42:32,110
I didn’t, I didn’t tell anybody.

622
00:42:35,580 –> 00:42:42,600
I point out this story because, as
you said, this happens everywhere.

623
00:42:43,990 –> 00:42:50,750
Here is my ninety-five year old father
in law telling me a story that happened

624
00:42:50,750 –> 00:42:53,470
to him almost eighty years ago.

625
00:42:54,270 –> 00:43:00,135
And what I learned immediately,
he wants someone to hear him.

626
00:43:01,565 –> 00:43:07,665
He wants someone at ninety-five to say
it’s okay, he wants someone to understand.

627
00:43:08,064 –> 00:43:15,195
He wants to unburden himself of this
trauma at ninety-five years old.

628
00:43:16,585 –> 00:43:21,055
He is still in pain, he’s agonizing
this and his sister had already

629
00:43:21,055 –> 00:43:24,855
passed away almost fifteen years
prior to him telling me this story.

630
00:43:24,855 –> 00:43:29,955
She was so freaking funny, she
was hilarious, she was amazing.

631
00:43:31,094 –> 00:43:33,995
But here he is, he’s, he calls me,

632
00:43:36,065 –> 00:43:39,515
his black son in law to tell the story.

633
00:43:39,875 –> 00:43:43,735
He didn’t call his Jewish son in law,
he didn’t call his Catholic son in law,

634
00:43:44,265 –> 00:43:52,305
he called me because a relationship that
was already great, became even deeper.

635
00:43:54,405 –> 00:43:55,245
Became,

636
00:43:58,835 –> 00:44:03,455
and it was more than just father in
law and son in law at that point.

637
00:44:04,035 –> 00:44:08,280
We were two men who are
carrying the same burden.

638
00:44:09,130 –> 00:44:11,020
He didn’t talk to his sister about it.

639
00:44:11,140 –> 00:44:14,860
And he wanted to talk to his
sister about it till the day he

640
00:44:14,870 –> 00:44:17,690
died, but he wasn’t allowed to.

641
00:44:18,570 –> 00:44:22,329
Which was me, until around 2015,

642
00:44:24,560 –> 00:44:28,240
when forty-five years later, I
find a way to talk to my sisters.

643
00:44:29,430 –> 00:44:40,625
So, this is my best example of
saying that it happens everywhere.

644
00:44:40,665 –> 00:44:45,775
East Coast, West Coast, Jewish, I
grew up Baptist, more on the spiritual

645
00:44:45,775 –> 00:44:47,155
side of the world these days.

646
00:44:48,005 –> 00:44:51,705
He’s well, well off, I am poor.

647
00:44:52,404 –> 00:44:54,694
Like I said, we had very little in common.

648
00:44:55,660 –> 00:44:59,940
Other than me marrying his
daughter, and now we’re both

649
00:45:00,240 –> 00:45:02,240
brothers carrying this trauma.

650
00:45:04,260 –> 00:45:05,760
Yeah, that’s beautiful.

651
00:45:05,760 –> 00:45:13,650
You know, just to share a little, both
of my sisters don’t talk to me at all.

652
00:45:13,790 –> 00:45:20,065
And it’s all because of this
type of stuff in our family.

653
00:45:20,505 –> 00:45:29,494
And I want to let you know here today,
before we wrap up that you inspired me

654
00:45:29,494 –> 00:45:37,844
today to really work hard on reaching out
to those individuals before I pass away.

655
00:45:38,775 –> 00:45:45,985
Because I watched the interview
today, how powerful that was.

656
00:45:46,735 –> 00:45:51,135
And, you know, I want that for my family.

657
00:45:51,865 –> 00:45:57,165
To, to watch your sisters say today
when I was watching it earlier,

658
00:45:57,985 –> 00:46:00,325
You know, I never knew that.

659
00:46:01,245 –> 00:46:02,685
We just assumed.

660
00:46:05,225 –> 00:46:08,525
And I’m telling you, I
feel the same way today.

661
00:46:10,065 –> 00:46:14,995
Yeah, my sisters are the
ones who made it okay for me.

662
00:46:16,605 –> 00:46:21,465
I, I was going to an event on how
to write a book and I knew what

663
00:46:21,465 –> 00:46:22,500
the book was I wanted to write.

664
00:46:23,270 –> 00:46:27,010
But I also knew if I’m going to
write a book, uh, because this

665
00:46:27,010 –> 00:46:28,070
was a book that was targeting me.

666
00:46:28,070 –> 00:46:32,560
I was going to have to tell my sisters,
I want to write a book about what we went

667
00:46:32,560 –> 00:46:35,560
through from a brother’s perspective so
other men out there will know they are

668
00:46:35,560 –> 00:46:37,589
not alone, because that’s what we think.

669
00:46:38,060 –> 00:46:38,730
We are not alone.

670
00:46:38,730 –> 00:46:41,750
My father in law thought he was
alone until he read my book.

671
00:46:42,770 –> 00:46:46,780
And so, I hadn’t spoken
to my sisters about it.

672
00:46:46,820 –> 00:46:51,189
But my second sister, I decided,
I’m going to tell her I’m going

673
00:46:51,190 –> 00:46:54,510
to write this book because I don’t
want them to be caught off guard.

674
00:46:56,300 –> 00:46:59,219
So I go over to her house, we’re
standing out in front of her garage,

675
00:46:59,620 –> 00:47:02,820
and you’ve probably already
heard it because you, uh, uh,

676
00:47:02,970 –> 00:47:05,930
watched that other podcast and
heard me probably described this.

677
00:47:07,840 –> 00:47:11,240
And I tell her, I want to write a
book about our family’s experience

678
00:47:11,260 –> 00:47:14,740
because I don’t want our family
story to be like every other family

679
00:47:14,830 –> 00:47:19,060
story, which is on the dunghill of
just child sexual, sexual abuse crap.

680
00:47:19,420 –> 00:47:23,509
Our family story, as tragic as it
was, can be used to help people.

681
00:47:24,500 –> 00:47:28,340
That’s what I want our family story,
that’s what I want our legacy to be.

682
00:47:28,510 –> 00:47:30,160
It’s not singing, this is it.

683
00:47:30,180 –> 00:47:32,670
We were brought together
for this, not to sing.

684
00:47:33,255 –> 00:47:37,105
But I want to write a story about
it and I’m telling her and from a

685
00:47:37,105 –> 00:47:39,105
brother’s perspective, I’m in tears.

686
00:47:40,115 –> 00:47:42,405
I am an absolute mess.

687
00:47:43,850 –> 00:47:46,040
And she did something I did not expect.

688
00:47:46,940 –> 00:47:51,430
I’m waiting for anger, I’m waiting
for hell to be unleashed on me.

689
00:47:53,020 –> 00:47:54,390
But time has a way

690
00:47:56,760 –> 00:47:58,819
of kind of getting a
different perspective.

691
00:47:59,670 –> 00:48:00,629
Oftentimes it does.

692
00:48:00,630 –> 00:48:01,710
Not always, but often.

693
00:48:02,699 –> 00:48:06,770
She looked at me and she said, Of
course, you should write a book.

694
00:48:07,010 –> 00:48:08,450
All you boys should write a book.

695
00:48:08,510 –> 00:48:11,371
It’s not my story, it’s not us
girl’s story, it’s your boy’s story.

696
00:48:11,371 –> 00:48:12,410
But you should write a book.

697
00:48:12,450 –> 00:48:17,020
All men need to know what it is
like from a brother’s perspective.

698
00:48:18,620 –> 00:48:20,570
And I didn’t know what to do with that.

699
00:48:20,630 –> 00:48:23,819
Because I’m waiting for her
to say, Hell no, how dare you?

700
00:48:26,010 –> 00:48:32,650
But time gave her an evolution
about all this and a different

701
00:48:32,650 –> 00:48:34,000
perspective on her brothers.

702
00:48:34,450 –> 00:48:39,280
And as you said, another sister who
read the book said, I had no idea this

703
00:48:39,280 –> 00:48:40,870
is what you boys were dealing with.

704
00:48:41,129 –> 00:48:42,850
I thought you guys just didn’t care.

705
00:48:42,850 –> 00:48:44,879
And I’m like, No, you said we can’t talk.

706
00:48:45,950 –> 00:48:49,220
But forty-five years later, I have
great relationships with three of

707
00:48:49,220 –> 00:48:54,930
my sisters after taking the most
dangerous steps in my life and calling

708
00:48:54,960 –> 00:48:57,260
them and saying, I need to talk.

709
00:48:57,310 –> 00:49:03,530
Knowing that the wrath was
going to be unleashed on me.

710
00:49:04,140 –> 00:49:07,890
And it didn’t, but it was the
hardest thing for me to do.

711
00:49:09,180 –> 00:49:16,490
So they are my heroes because they, they,
I wasn’t looking for permission, I was

712
00:49:16,500 –> 00:49:20,730
going to write it anyway, but they gave
me the grace of understanding the trauma.

713
00:49:20,749 –> 00:49:22,320
They, they understood.

714
00:49:24,920 –> 00:49:25,290
Yep.

715
00:49:25,660 –> 00:49:26,770
Uh, time.

716
00:49:27,150 –> 00:49:30,010
You know, everything can change in time.

717
00:49:30,370 –> 00:49:36,110
And if we really dig into ourself, we
can find those perspectives that fit.

718
00:49:36,670 –> 00:49:38,240
And it’s very important.

719
00:49:38,980 –> 00:49:43,030
We have very limited time,
you’ve got another appointment.

720
00:49:43,110 –> 00:49:47,360
I could speak for hours about this
with you because it’s so powerful.

721
00:49:47,650 –> 00:49:52,340
It is the most important
story on the internet today.

722
00:49:52,800 –> 00:49:58,185
And I want to say thank you for sharing it
here with us on the Dead America Podcast.

723
00:49:59,365 –> 00:50:03,135
Could you please tell people
where they can find the book and

724
00:50:03,145 –> 00:50:05,405
how to connect with you, please?

725
00:50:06,025 –> 00:50:07,365
Well, that’s gracious of you.

726
00:50:07,385 –> 00:50:08,464
Thanks for asking.

727
00:50:08,965 –> 00:50:11,695
Uh, people can find
Helplessness on Amazon.

728
00:50:11,845 –> 00:50:17,630
Uh, It’s, I’m being booked all over the
place for it, it’s a huge thing now.

729
00:50:18,030 –> 00:50:25,549
Uh, people can reach me, uh, you know, um,
at my website, keepercatranwhitney.com.

730
00:50:25,570 –> 00:50:30,009
There’s plenty of stuff there, free
stuff, book reads, chapter reads,

731
00:50:30,060 –> 00:50:31,949
downloads, it’s all sorts of stuff there.

732
00:50:32,410 –> 00:50:34,589
And if people want to reach
me directly, they can reach me

733
00:50:34,589 –> 00:50:39,489
at keepercw.author@ gmail.com.

734
00:50:39,745 –> 00:50:41,945
Um, this is what I do.

735
00:50:41,985 –> 00:50:47,534
I bring a conversation for brothers and
bring us into the world, uh, where we’re

736
00:50:47,534 –> 00:50:49,485
oftentimes not allowed to participate.

737
00:50:50,075 –> 00:50:52,574
Keeper, thank you for
doing what you do, sir.

738
00:50:54,574 –> 00:50:55,194
Thank you.

739
00:50:55,194 –> 00:50:57,785
You, you, you stay strong.

740
00:50:58,345 –> 00:51:02,155
Uh, I, I feel you and I feel your wife.

741
00:51:02,155 –> 00:51:06,610
And, um, the best that we can do,
like with me and my sisters, is

742
00:51:06,610 –> 00:51:11,500
just hold on to each other and
just do the best we can every day.

743
00:51:11,590 –> 00:51:15,369
Because that’s what we all want,
men, woman, child, boy, girl,

744
00:51:15,369 –> 00:51:16,360
we all want the same thing.

745
00:51:16,369 –> 00:51:19,860
We all want to be positive,
we all want to be empowered.

746
00:51:20,420 –> 00:51:25,360
And we want to live a life of
just care and understanding.

747
00:51:27,879 –> 00:51:28,779
That’s awesome wisdom.

748
00:51:28,819 –> 00:51:29,019
Thank you.

749
00:51:33,635 –> 00:51:35,355
Thank you for joining us today.

750
00:51:35,945 –> 00:51:42,215
If you found this podcast enlightening,
entertaining, educational in any way,

751
00:51:42,975 –> 00:51:49,355
please share, like, subscribe, and join
us right back here next week for another

752
00:51:49,405 –> 00:51:52,680
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.

753
00:51:53,080 –> 00:51:58,430
I’m Ed Watters, your host, enjoy
your afternoon wherever you might be.