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Massimo Rigotti: But I try to get people
into a five year, which is a big stretch.

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A lot of people, which was really
wild to me when I started working with

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others in my program, is that they
don’t, most people don’t look beyond

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the end of the month in a lot of cases.

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And that might even be
a stretch, you know?

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Ed Watters: Today, we have
Massimo Rigotti with us.

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He is a speaker, an addiction recovery
advocate, and he’s the author of

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Flavors of Confidence, The Sober Method.

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Massimo, could you please
introduce yourself?

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Let people know just a little
more about you, please.

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Massimo Rigotti: Absolutely.

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Thanks for having me today, Ed.

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Uh, it’s always, uh, great to get
out in front of people and, and let

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them know more about what I’m doing.

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So a little quick background on myself.

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I was, uh, born in the middle of the
country in Lincoln, Nebraska and,

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and had quite an adventurous life
that took me throughout this country.

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And along the way, I managed
to get myself tremendously

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addicted to alcohol and cocaine.

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Uh, and it eventually took me down
with it in a spectacular crash that

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left me homeless for sixteen months,

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living on the street.

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And going from the pinnacle of success to
living on the street will really wake you

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up with where you are and who you are, and
it’ll also show you what you’re made of.

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And when I stood up sober, I
recognized that things weren’t

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exactly how I wanted them to be.

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And there had to be more
than just life of sobriety.

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What else was out there?

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You know, I had to find that next calling.

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And instead of looking in the rear view
mirror like so many people do in, in this

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circumstance, I decided that I was gonna
put it 100% behind me and look forward.

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And I created my own method, which
I called Flavors of Confidence.

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Which, uh, is about building up yourself
and reframe your life so that you’re

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confident in your, in how you exist
and move within your own daily life.

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If you have a, a sense of confidence
and a sense of worth, your life takes

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on a whole new meaning and purpose.

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And it is transformative in it’s way
that it impacts others around you and

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your success breeds success around you.

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And it’s just an
uplifting, uh, experience.

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Now in, in all of this, I was working
with someone who I had met randomly

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on a beach and uh, we came together.

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Her name was Samantha Thomas, and she
was unfortunately tragically murdered

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by a drunk driver in August of 2020.

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She’d been encouraging me to share
what I was doing, but I just kind

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of sloughed it off and said, Ah,
I’ll get around to it someday.

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But when that happened, it totally
changed my, my purpose in life.

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And I wrote the book and I start
advocating, uh, the sober method and,

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and the tools that I had created for
myself, I now share with everyone.

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So that’s a little bit about
me and, and how I got here

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and, and why I do what I do.

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Ed Watters: I think it’s amazing, most
of us, it takes tragedy to wake us up.

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And it’s so alarming when, when you
are filled with addictive behaviors,

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as any of us, you know, recovering
addicts know, you have this personality.

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Uh, I was there at nine years old
and I, I started walking that.

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Yes, it’s amazing.

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And my uncle got me into Alateen at about
thirteen years old and it was amazing.

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I, I still, you know, went my own way, did
my own thing, it was part of growing up.

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But it’s alarming how many people
are addicted to substances.

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What, what was the most devastating
part of your awakening period?

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Massimo Rigotti: I think the most
challenging thing for me to work

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through was just the large wake
of destruction I had left behind

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me and not realized just how many
lives I touched in a negative way.

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I, I was, uh, successful.

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I, I, I guess a lot of people classify
this as a, a functioning alcoholic.

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Uh, so there were many people that maybe
knew I drank a little bit, but they

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didn’t actually recognize or realize
the fact that I was a, a true addict,

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uh, not only to alcohol, but to drugs.

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And so I masked it pretty well because
it was succeed at all costs, get

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outta my way, I’m gonna destroy you,
that was my kind of attitude in life.

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And after I was completely humbled by
beginning to forage for food and not have

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a roof over my head, I began to look at
life in an entirely different way and

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recognize, wow, I did a lot of bad things.

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Not really in, in a sense, I didn’t really
think that, that I had really hurt anyone.

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I didn’t, you know, physically
harm anyone, but I said a lot of

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things and I did a lot of things
that I could have done better.

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And that was troubling to me.

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That, that was the, probably the most
troubling thing in my overall awakening

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was realizing that I had to go back
and fix a lot of, you know, put right

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what I once put wrong, so to speak.

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Ed Watters: Yeah.

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I, I think a lot of people, it’s that
guilt syndrome that we deal with.

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And, and fixing that, you
know, that trash in our life,

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that’s a big part of recovery.

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Because even if you’re going to AA and
you’re trying to do the program, you know,

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I witnessed so many alcoholics, and I,
I was part of it, you know, we’d go to

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a meeting and then, you know, after the
meeting, we’d meet at the bar and have a

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drink and talk about what we discussed.

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You know, so waking up and owning
yourself is a big part of this

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journey and it’s about fixing that
negative self behavior, really.

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Uh, and that’s owning up to your
behaviors, being truthful with yourself,

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and not only owning up to it, but
walking the truth into your life.

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That’s hard to do.

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So, so talk about the process with us.

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Massimo Rigotti: Well, I’m glad that
you brought up something that happened

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in your AA meetings because it’s
something that happened in mine as

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well and that was troubling for me.

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I like, we’d walk out into the parking
lot and then suddenly it’s like,

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you guys want to go get a drink?

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I’m like, Whoa, whoa.

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Wait a second, this is completely
against what I just sat through.

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Um, yeah.

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So, uh, you know, the, the, I think part
of the problem is that in the traditional,

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uh, group setting like this, is that
we’d look in the rear view mirror.

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And, and so we tend to have this, uh,
sort of wallowing in the past, you know,

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this happened to me, this happened to me.

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Well, you start talking about those
things all the time, and I tell

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you what, in AA meetings, I’d start
like, man, that was kind of fun.

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I remember when that happened.

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Man, you know, and you don’t want that.

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I mean, so this is, we also have another
challenge here, and then I’ll answer

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your question, is that the challenge
that we have is that in this particular

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small subset of mental health recovery,
we are self-affirming a negative.

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We stand up in meetings and we say
that we’re an alcoholic, we’re, I’m

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a drug addict, I’m this, I’m that.

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We don’t do that in any other area
of mental health, we always talk

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about the strength that we are.

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I am better than this, I am
greater than this, I am not going

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to let this stand in my way.

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Why are we doing the opposite in something
that is so powerful, like addiction?

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So I always encourage, and I
don’t even, uh, answer a question

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like, Are you an alcoholic?

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I say, No.

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Because I’m not.

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I haven’t had a drink in nine years.

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So I, I don’t see myself as that, I see
myself as something greater than that.

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And that is, that’s ultimately
what the sober method teaches.

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So the step one of sober method,
and sober stands for Stoic, Observe,

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Behavior, Execute, and Restore,

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and it is a continuous improvement
plan that works on your life

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and your mind in a holistic way.

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So the, the beginning step is stoicism,
so we’re talking about taking a

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deep, reflective look at yourself.

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And in, in doing that, you’re forced to
look at some of the hard truths about

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yourself to, to understand why you’re
doing the things that you’re doing

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and what is truly important to you.

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And, and, and so the, the
process starts off by, you know,

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looking at one fundamental thing.

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I always recommend, uh, meditations
by Marcus Aurelius is a good starting

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point, mainly because the barrier
of entry of getting a copy is $0.

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So, you know, I don’t have anyone saying,
Well, how much is that gonna cost me,

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you know?

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I mean, like, if you really want,
you could just Google Marcus Aurelius

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quotes and that’d be a good start
for you on the internet, right?

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Uh, and, and so Marcus Aurelius
is a really interesting character

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when you think about it.

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Here’s, is literally the most
powerful man on earth 2000 years

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ago, looking at himself in his own
journal in a very personal way and

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realizing his own shortcomings.

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And most people in that, with that
amount of power would never think,

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I am not good enough to do this.

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I, I, I’m struggling with this.

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Most instead say, I’m the greatest person
alive, you know, nobody is better than me.

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And so that’s very telling.

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And if, if he could do that,
then we all can do that.

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Because certainly most of us are not
the most powerful person alive, right?

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So as, as you look and reflect on a
specific item, uh, that, that Marcus

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Aurelius’s like pointed out in his
own life, like thinking that, uh, you

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know, the, something is beneath you.

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And you might look at your own life,
it’s like, did I ever think that

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something was beneath my station?

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Okay, I can think of three or four things.

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Why did I think that?

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And then dig into your own mind, what
created that belief in your mind?

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Oh, well this happened to me when I
was four and my dad did this to me.

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So then I thought from that point
forward that this was the right thing.

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And you recognize, Oh, wait a second,
that’s connected to this other thought

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that then later I did this, which caused

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me to start treating
my friends in this way.

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And then I realized that I was hurting
them and then I started drinking

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because I was, I felt bad about that.

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Oh, wow.

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I just discovered why I started,
I like, I have a trigger.

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I just discovered a trigger just by
going down this road of self-reflection.

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Um, and it’s very powerful
because we’re, we’re layered.

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We are so layered and, and we forget that
everything that we do from the time that

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we’re very small is a, is, is just laying
down a framework that we operate within.

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Because we’re all, uh, you know, lots
of people say, Oh, humans are lazy.

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I don’t necessarily like calling us lazy,
I see humans as optimized for the least

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amount of power, you know, consumption.

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We want to do, we, we, it’s not
that we’re really lazy, we wanna

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have a reserve power source, right?

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So your brain just goes, ah,
I don’t need to work on this.

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We, this worked last
time, just do it again.

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And that is, and so when you frame up
something that is negative and you lay

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down, uh, these things on top of each
other, years after years, after years,

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that’s why it becomes so difficult to, to
tear the house down and rebuild yourself.

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Um, that’s what this
allows you to do though.

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Because then you look at that one, and I’m
talking, that’s just like one minor little

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thing that I pointed out right there.

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Okay, so now I move forward and how
does that impact me in my daily life?

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That’s the observed step.

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So it’s like, Well, okay, that
impacts me in these different ways.

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What would happen if I would change
that behavior just a little bit.

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And this is like kind of
playing it out in your mind.

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Like if, and, and testing it and,
and what that might look like.

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Then you actually, you know, remap
that behavior in the behavior

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step and, and, and play it out.

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Maybe role play it, if you,
if you have that ability.

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And then you go and you
test, that’s execute.

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So, okay, we’re gonna do
this differently this time.

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And when you have that, uh, ability
to test and say, Oh, that worked.

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Oh my goodness.

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Not only was I able to figure out
something that had troubled me

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my entire life, I also have now

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changed my behavior and I
got a different outcome.

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Wow.

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You know, and so you have this positive
affirmation that what you discovered

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about yourself and changed about
yourself in near real time is going to

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have a positive impact on your life.

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And then you, if, if, if it doesn’t
work though, then you go back to the

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00:14:26,664 –> 00:14:29,454
observe step and go like, Okay, well,
that kind of worked, but it didn’t work.

212
00:14:29,454 –> 00:14:32,184
And so you kinda like, you know,
fiddle around in the kitchen

213
00:14:32,184 –> 00:14:33,354
and make a better omelet.

214
00:14:33,894 –> 00:14:36,804
And then you come out eventually
in the restoration step where you,

215
00:14:37,044 –> 00:14:41,410
you reflect back and you think, Who
did, who did I negatively impact

216
00:14:41,410 –> 00:14:42,760
with this behavior in my life?

217
00:14:42,910 –> 00:14:48,430
And this is your typical, in a 12 step
program, where you’d be like, going back

218
00:14:48,430 –> 00:14:52,569
and, and looking and, and getting the
forgiveness and, and so on and so forth.

219
00:14:52,569 –> 00:14:54,340
And this is making amends basically.

220
00:14:54,340 –> 00:14:55,209
And then you start over.

221
00:14:55,270 –> 00:14:58,990
Go back to stoicism, look for
something else about yourself, reflect,

222
00:14:59,260 –> 00:15:01,860
and, and it’s, it’s really wild.

223
00:15:02,220 –> 00:15:06,444
Uh, I’m on my hundred and twenty-nineth
pass at this exact moment through my own

224
00:15:06,444 –> 00:15:09,685
system, and it’s, it’s, it’s really great.

225
00:15:09,685 –> 00:15:13,194
Because each time I go back to the
beginning, it’s like, I feel like

226
00:15:13,194 –> 00:15:17,964
I’m getting into smaller and smaller
perfection, improvement of myself.

227
00:15:18,714 –> 00:15:22,824
Uh, I don’t even really recognize
the person I was a decade ago now.

228
00:15:23,084 –> 00:15:27,915
It, it, it, in reading what I
wrote in my journals a decade ago,

229
00:15:27,915 –> 00:15:29,415
I’m like, Who was this person?

230
00:15:29,954 –> 00:15:32,324
Um, it’s really wild and it’s really cool.

231
00:15:33,435 –> 00:15:33,704
Ed Watters: Yeah.

232
00:15:33,704 –> 00:15:40,274
You know, it’s very interesting because
that same type of system is true recovery

233
00:15:40,274 –> 00:15:46,785
process from all of those mental and
physical barriers that we all face.

234
00:15:47,084 –> 00:15:53,515
So, you know, I’m in my
fifty-nineth year of life.

235
00:15:53,515 –> 00:15:59,844
I’m looking at that big six O
mark now, and I’m really saying to

236
00:15:59,844 –> 00:16:07,765
myself, You’re just now starting
to feel what life is about.

237
00:16:08,829 –> 00:16:13,900
Because of the process that you just
outlined for us, you know, you’ve

238
00:16:13,900 –> 00:16:19,510
got to go back and seek each of
those disgusting moments in your

239
00:16:19,510 –> 00:16:26,589
life and discover what made you do
that and how did you get through it.

240
00:16:26,829 –> 00:16:30,579
You know, it, it’s a miracle
that we get through some of

241
00:16:30,579 –> 00:16:32,199
the things that we go through.

242
00:16:33,130 –> 00:16:39,969
I’ve found myself, you know, as a
teenager waking up in people’s closets.

243
00:16:40,719 –> 00:16:45,490
I, I went to parties and
don’t even know where I am.

244
00:16:45,490 –> 00:16:50,589
And here I am, middle of the night,
waking up from passing out in

245
00:16:50,589 –> 00:16:52,810
these people’s bathroom closet.

246
00:16:53,589 –> 00:16:56,260
And how do I get outta here?

247
00:16:56,290 –> 00:17:02,079
And, you know, those odd feelings
that we put ourselves through

248
00:17:03,054 –> 00:17:05,634
is part of Learned behavior.

249
00:17:06,505 –> 00:17:12,685
And this subconscious mind that we talk
about, we really have to dig in, like you

250
00:17:12,685 –> 00:17:19,824
just explained, to figure out all of that,
why we do the dirty things that we do.

251
00:17:20,154 –> 00:17:23,574
And then, that’s part of the reflection.

252
00:17:23,574 –> 00:17:28,134
But you, you tout that you
always wanna look forward.

253
00:17:28,824 –> 00:17:35,395
And part of looking forward is
making a proper plan so we don’t

254
00:17:35,395 –> 00:17:37,614
have this piss poor performance.

255
00:17:37,915 –> 00:17:41,574
The seven P principle, my cousin calls it.

256
00:17:41,814 –> 00:17:47,814
He told me proper prior planning
prevents piss poor performance.

257
00:17:48,594 –> 00:17:57,205
And I really look at that now and I
say, Wow, that’s part of life I never

258
00:17:57,205 –> 00:18:01,255
really experienced, proper planning.

259
00:18:01,975 –> 00:18:03,955
And, and it’s true.

260
00:18:03,955 –> 00:18:09,505
If we plan properly and we forget
about all of the things that

261
00:18:09,505 –> 00:18:16,585
we want and focus on our actual
needs, our life goes a lot better.

262
00:18:17,094 –> 00:18:20,054
What is your take on that Massimo?

263
00:18:20,740 –> 00:18:21,969
Massimo Rigotti: I, I love it.

264
00:18:22,060 –> 00:18:27,400
And, and one of the things that is
actually in the execute step of, uh, the

265
00:18:27,400 –> 00:18:32,380
sober method is looking ahead and creating
a plan that you’re actually following.

266
00:18:32,409 –> 00:18:38,290
And, uh, and I, I personally do it
just a little bit differently because

267
00:18:38,290 –> 00:18:40,360
I tend to be a very long-term thinker.

268
00:18:40,840 –> 00:18:44,290
Um, so I have like twenty year goals set.

269
00:18:45,324 –> 00:18:50,185
But I try to get people into a
five year, which is a big stretch.

270
00:18:50,185 –> 00:18:54,114
A lot of people, which was really
wild to me when I started working with

271
00:18:54,114 –> 00:19:00,565
others in my program, is that they
don’t, most people don’t look beyond

272
00:19:00,565 –> 00:19:02,335
the end of the month in a lot of cases.

273
00:19:02,335 –> 00:19:04,465
And that might even be
a stretch, you know?

274
00:19:04,465 –> 00:19:06,955
They’re like, Oh, well, I don’t even
know what I’m gonna do on Friday.

275
00:19:06,985 –> 00:19:10,284
I’m like, it’s Wednesday, you know?

276
00:19:10,284 –> 00:19:13,585
So it, it, that was a, that
was an awakening for me.

277
00:19:13,585 –> 00:19:19,225
So it, I, I encourage people to
look initially two years out.

278
00:19:19,375 –> 00:19:20,725
Where do you want to be in two years?

279
00:19:21,145 –> 00:19:23,725
Okay, now let’s divide that out.

280
00:19:23,725 –> 00:19:25,735
Think about that in sections.

281
00:19:25,795 –> 00:19:29,844
In order to get to that goal, what,
what would be a logical, I have to

282
00:19:29,844 –> 00:19:31,435
be here at the end of this year?

283
00:19:31,495 –> 00:19:33,654
And then you’re like, Okay,
that’s your one year goal.

284
00:19:33,685 –> 00:19:35,154
Okay, how would I get there?

285
00:19:35,154 –> 00:19:38,395
I gotta divide that in half and I
like do this whole divide in half

286
00:19:38,395 –> 00:19:42,355
thing until you’re down to, this is
what you have to get done this week.

287
00:19:43,105 –> 00:19:44,034
Oh, okay.

288
00:19:44,154 –> 00:19:51,235
And, and then you frame up your life into
a big, long series of small, measurable

289
00:19:51,235 –> 00:19:53,065
steps that are going to get you there.

290
00:19:53,065 –> 00:19:57,925
It’s kind of like looking at, uh,
a, a 1% improvement plan, except

291
00:19:57,925 –> 00:19:59,514
you’re doing it with your own life.

292
00:19:59,514 –> 00:20:01,855
You’re like, Okay, I have to
take these steps this week.

293
00:20:02,155 –> 00:20:05,875
If I complete those, then
I’m gonna stay on goal.

294
00:20:06,324 –> 00:20:10,885
The other thing that is really challenging
with those that come, I, I think for

295
00:20:10,885 –> 00:20:15,670
most anybody, but especially those
with addiction and in recovery, is

296
00:20:15,759 –> 00:20:17,500
giving yourself a little bit of grace.

297
00:20:17,620 –> 00:20:22,779
You may not make every goal that
you, you know, set out to have

298
00:20:22,779 –> 00:20:23,949
done by the end of the month.

299
00:20:24,100 –> 00:20:24,850
Well, that’s okay.

300
00:20:24,850 –> 00:20:26,049
It’s a little bit of a setback.

301
00:20:26,049 –> 00:20:28,299
How are you gonna course
correct and, and adjust?

302
00:20:28,299 –> 00:20:31,779
You can still make the six month
mark and, and understanding that

303
00:20:31,960 –> 00:20:34,420
things happen and be okay with that.

304
00:20:34,750 –> 00:20:40,090
Uh, I, I think oftentimes those of
us that have gone through addiction

305
00:20:40,090 –> 00:20:44,844
recovery is that we get, we get really
down on ourselves if any little thing,

306
00:20:44,844 –> 00:20:48,775
just like it can just like knock the
house of cards out from under us and,

307
00:20:48,775 –> 00:20:50,634
and then suddenly we’re not able to.

308
00:20:51,924 –> 00:20:56,034
And, and that is something
that is, really comes from the

309
00:20:56,034 –> 00:20:58,674
strength within the sober method.

310
00:20:58,674 –> 00:21:02,485
And that’s why I really like it because
you’re focusing so deep within yourself

311
00:21:02,485 –> 00:21:04,404
and really reframing your mind.

312
00:21:04,795 –> 00:21:09,264
That as your mind strengthens up, you
realize that the little, these, these,

313
00:21:09,654 –> 00:21:14,065
these things that used to be huge, that
would be, completely ruin your day.

314
00:21:15,054 –> 00:21:21,835
I mean, I mean, they seem so minute
because what you, if you were on path

315
00:21:21,835 –> 00:21:25,074
and you’re on target, and you have good
planning, you know what your goal is,

316
00:21:25,435 –> 00:21:29,935
then all the little things around you
that used to seem huge, are nothing.

317
00:21:29,935 –> 00:21:32,694
They just fall away because
you stay focused on that goal.

318
00:21:32,694 –> 00:21:36,820
And if you’re, if you’re working
towards that, it makes, it makes

319
00:21:37,030 –> 00:21:39,190
life in general much more easy.

320
00:21:39,280 –> 00:21:43,420
I think that we spend so much of
our time, uh, kind of going in

321
00:21:43,420 –> 00:21:47,050
thirty different directions and, and
wondering why we don’t get anywhere.

322
00:21:50,380 –> 00:21:50,739
Ed Watters: Yeah.

323
00:21:51,010 –> 00:21:55,300
Well, you know, I tell my
wife, When I die, put don’t

324
00:21:55,300 –> 00:21:57,489
worry about it on my headstone.

325
00:21:57,940 –> 00:22:05,514
And I really think when you figure that
out, all of that garbage goes away.

326
00:22:05,514 –> 00:22:09,745
And you know, it goes into
that, Keep it simple, stupid.

327
00:22:09,745 –> 00:22:13,495
And one, one day at a
time, one step at a time.

328
00:22:13,975 –> 00:22:19,194
And, and that is the key
to a healthy lifestyle.

329
00:22:19,674 –> 00:22:27,504
And it’s hard for addicts to put that
mindset into place, it, it takes years.

330
00:22:27,504 –> 00:22:33,835
I’ve, I’ve, I’ve watched thousands
of addicts and, you know, drunks

331
00:22:33,864 –> 00:22:40,375
just become nothing and die because
of cirrhosis of the liver and all of

332
00:22:40,375 –> 00:22:46,375
that because they don’t wanna step
into that hard place of that shame and

333
00:22:46,375 –> 00:22:50,275
guilt of what we’ve done in the past.

334
00:22:50,634 –> 00:22:57,625
And it, it’s really, it, it really
keeps my mind focused more on what

335
00:22:57,625 –> 00:23:03,714
I’m doing here today with you, you
know, bettering myself and letting

336
00:23:03,714 –> 00:23:08,935
people know that’s watching or
listening to us today, It’s okay.

337
00:23:09,924 –> 00:23:11,605
You know, just keep it simple.

338
00:23:12,625 –> 00:23:16,864
And, and we’re all in this
together, whether we like it or not.

339
00:23:17,415 –> 00:23:24,444
So it, it’s kinda like the Lord’s
Prayer, you know, you can only do

340
00:23:24,444 –> 00:23:33,294
so much and, you know, focus on what
you can do and let the other go.

341
00:23:33,774 –> 00:23:38,395
It, it’s really part of a good,
balanced approach to life.

342
00:23:40,585 –> 00:23:48,549
Talk to us about your book and tell people
how they can get the book when it’s done.

343
00:23:49,029 –> 00:23:52,779
Uh, it, it’s, it’s a
process to write a book.

344
00:23:53,080 –> 00:23:59,350
What got you into the mindset of,
Hey, I need to put this into a book

345
00:24:00,040 –> 00:24:01,779
and this is how I’m going to do it.

346
00:24:02,739 –> 00:24:03,819
Massimo Rigotti: You aren’t lying.

347
00:24:03,819 –> 00:24:08,830
I think that, uh, I think writing
that, my first book was the hardest

348
00:24:08,830 –> 00:24:10,239
thing I’ve ever done in my life.

349
00:24:11,440 –> 00:24:14,679
I, it, it is tough, it is very tough.

350
00:24:14,920 –> 00:24:19,239
So my first book, uh, is, is Flavors of
Confidence and Reflection For Those in

351
00:24:19,239 –> 00:24:23,650
Need, and that book, uh, is my life story.

352
00:24:23,679 –> 00:24:31,960
It is a reflection on my life, how
I began, and, and, and my trials,

353
00:24:31,960 –> 00:24:38,679
tribulations, my wild ride to success, my
hard, uh, you know, fall to homelessness,

354
00:24:38,679 –> 00:24:45,049
and, and then the dramatic rise back to,
honestly, being in better shape in all

355
00:24:45,049 –> 00:24:47,120
aspects of my life than I ever was before.

356
00:24:47,239 –> 00:24:49,310
And that’s an amazing thing right there.

357
00:24:49,730 –> 00:24:52,339
Um, that was, that was tough.

358
00:24:52,339 –> 00:24:56,810
And the reason that it was really
tough to write this, well, one, um,

359
00:24:56,899 –> 00:25:01,370
the motivation to begin writing this
was the, the tragic murder of someone

360
00:25:01,399 –> 00:25:06,340
who was, you know, my rock and,
and, and the closest person to me.

361
00:25:06,340 –> 00:25:10,449
And so losing Samantha, you know,
being the catalyst for writing this

362
00:25:10,449 –> 00:25:16,630
book, made it so, um, it made it
much more emotional than it probably

363
00:25:16,630 –> 00:25:19,449
would’ve been, uh, otherwise.

364
00:25:19,810 –> 00:25:23,830
Yet the exercise was tremendously
cathartic because I’d always

365
00:25:23,830 –> 00:25:25,060
been a very private person.

366
00:25:25,060 –> 00:25:28,179
I didn’t really want people to know
the inner workings of what was going

367
00:25:28,179 –> 00:25:33,040
on inside my head and how, how I had
achieved things that I had achieved.

368
00:25:33,339 –> 00:25:35,920
Um, I didn’t really feel like
it was anyone’s business.

369
00:25:35,920 –> 00:25:39,100
It’s just that’s my private life and
you, you don’t need to know anything.

370
00:25:39,920 –> 00:25:41,000
So this was tough.

371
00:25:41,089 –> 00:25:45,529
I had to open myself up in ways that I was
even brought up to like, you don’t tell

372
00:25:45,529 –> 00:25:47,359
people things about yourself, you know?

373
00:25:47,359 –> 00:25:50,060
I, I don’t know what type of family
you were, but maybe it’s also

374
00:25:50,060 –> 00:25:53,370
generational, but I, that’s the,
that’s the generation that I was in.

375
00:25:53,370 –> 00:25:55,100
It was like, yeah, you just don’t do that.

376
00:25:55,609 –> 00:25:58,770
Um, and I’m, I’m ten years
behind you, so I’m forty-nine

377
00:25:58,790 –> 00:26:00,319
up for the big five O this year.

378
00:26:00,319 –> 00:26:05,690
So it’s, uh, it, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s
a milestone birthday is ahead of me.

379
00:26:06,230 –> 00:26:07,250
Yeah, exactly.

380
00:26:07,730 –> 00:26:14,185
Um, And, and, and so at the end of
this book, I wrap it up with, with

381
00:26:14,364 –> 00:26:19,344
what I was doing at the time, and
this was like a ten step, uh, method.

382
00:26:19,614 –> 00:26:22,315
And it was just what I had been
sharing with people that I saw

383
00:26:22,315 –> 00:26:24,835
at AA and it wasn’t very refined.

384
00:26:24,835 –> 00:26:26,484
It was what I was doing personally.

385
00:26:27,384 –> 00:26:33,864
Um, yet releasing the book almost
immediately showed me, and the book

386
00:26:33,864 –> 00:26:39,625
came out two years ago, March of 23, and
almost immediately I was getting feedback.

387
00:26:39,625 –> 00:26:43,585
And as I started working with people that
were trying to use it, that it was clunky.

388
00:26:43,794 –> 00:26:45,114
What step am I on?

389
00:26:45,205 –> 00:26:47,154
What am I supposed to do after this?

390
00:26:47,274 –> 00:26:52,674
Um, you know, it just, it just didn’t
really work well in a larger scenario.

391
00:26:52,734 –> 00:26:57,695
And so I went back to the drawing
board and I thought, Okay, how

392
00:26:57,695 –> 00:27:02,074
can I make this easier and, and
maybe meld it into something?

393
00:27:02,495 –> 00:27:03,995
And I was like, and what would I call it?

394
00:27:04,085 –> 00:27:06,755
I mean, I can’t, I mean,
Flavors of Confidence is kind

395
00:27:06,755 –> 00:27:08,495
of clunky, you know, as well.

396
00:27:08,495 –> 00:27:11,255
So I thought, Maybe it’s a sober method.

397
00:27:11,855 –> 00:27:14,255
I’m like, Well, surely
that’s taken by somebody.

398
00:27:14,255 –> 00:27:17,074
There’s no way that that
can be available in 2023.

399
00:27:17,074 –> 00:27:21,304
But sure enough, it was, So I,
I latched onto it right away.

400
00:27:22,299 –> 00:27:25,029
Yeah, I mean, so what
do you use to get sober?

401
00:27:25,090 –> 00:27:25,929
The sober Method.

402
00:27:25,929 –> 00:27:27,670
I mean, it totally makes sense, right?

403
00:27:28,034 –> 00:27:28,255
Uh,

404
00:27:30,429 –> 00:27:34,210
uh, and so what I did then is
I took my original ten steps

405
00:27:34,210 –> 00:27:36,600
and I like rolled in a couple

406
00:27:36,600 –> 00:27:37,499
steps into one.

407
00:27:37,499 –> 00:27:40,709
Some, you know, like one of the
steps, the behavior step, was

408
00:27:40,709 –> 00:27:42,509
always just the behavior step.

409
00:27:42,509 –> 00:27:45,389
It used to be step six, and
now it’s like step three.

410
00:27:45,389 –> 00:27:48,389
So, um, but it, it made it much easier.

411
00:27:48,389 –> 00:27:51,570
And then I went back to the drawing
board and it, it wasn’t that much longer.

412
00:27:51,570 –> 00:27:56,820
So in October, end of October of 23,
I came out with The Sober Method book.

413
00:27:57,030 –> 00:28:04,445
And that’s when I really began working
specifically to help others understand

414
00:28:04,504 –> 00:28:05,884
that there are alternatives to AA.

415
00:28:06,725 –> 00:28:11,344
Um, and, and I think that
that is so important.

416
00:28:12,574 –> 00:28:14,554
Not everything works for everyone.

417
00:28:15,124 –> 00:28:18,514
And when you, when you have, you
know, you’re being told that,

418
00:28:18,544 –> 00:28:21,094
Oh, this is the best thing, okay?

419
00:28:21,154 –> 00:28:22,475
And it’s the most accepted thing.

420
00:28:22,475 –> 00:28:26,195
So everybody goes to NA or AA
believing this is the path.

421
00:28:26,465 –> 00:28:29,149
And if it doesn’t work, we’re
like, Well, I tried everything.

422
00:28:29,820 –> 00:28:34,020
Eh, that makes it so, I, I just
so dislike when I hear that.

423
00:28:34,620 –> 00:28:40,620
And that’s why I also encourage other
ways to get sober that aren’t my own

424
00:28:40,620 –> 00:28:44,310
method, because I recognize that, Hey,
this might not be the best for you.

425
00:28:44,790 –> 00:28:48,660
But the most important thing to me
is that you find yourself and your

426
00:28:48,660 –> 00:28:54,690
sobriety because you’re gonna be the
best possible person when you do, so.

427
00:28:56,189 –> 00:28:56,580
Ed Watters: Yeah.

428
00:28:56,610 –> 00:28:57,990
Yeah, I like that a lot.

429
00:28:58,679 –> 00:29:06,899
Uh, when, when we discover ourselves,
we’re just this infinitely stronger

430
00:29:06,899 –> 00:29:12,750
person and, and we can devour
the world and move mountains in

431
00:29:12,750 –> 00:29:15,465
ways we never thought possible.

432
00:29:15,825 –> 00:29:22,335
And I’m still learning new things,
new ways to evolve into something

433
00:29:22,395 –> 00:29:24,225
better than what I am now.

434
00:29:24,555 –> 00:29:28,575
And that’s really what it’s
about, is evolving and keep

435
00:29:28,695 –> 00:29:30,615
that evolution happening.

436
00:29:32,264 –> 00:29:39,300
We’re we’re this creature of habit,
but we need to be forever learners.

437
00:29:39,840 –> 00:29:46,169
And, and really that means read a
book and, you know, get off of, you

438
00:29:46,169 –> 00:29:52,290
know, I love YouTube and it’s very
informative, but, and I hate reading

439
00:29:52,290 –> 00:29:59,550
books, but we specifically set a time
that is intentional for reading now.

440
00:30:00,149 –> 00:30:06,570
And it is increasingly making me a
better person because I understand

441
00:30:06,570 –> 00:30:08,340
the world around me better.

442
00:30:08,940 –> 00:30:13,409
And I, I really wanna encourage
the watchers and the listeners

443
00:30:13,409 –> 00:30:16,139
today to, you know, read a book.

444
00:30:16,260 –> 00:30:23,055
Start with The Sober Method because
you’re obviously here because you

445
00:30:23,055 –> 00:30:25,455
wanna hear something about recovery.

446
00:30:25,815 –> 00:30:28,185
And I, I think that’s very important.

447
00:30:28,185 –> 00:30:36,765
We, we find ourselves in that group
mentality when we go to AA meetings,

448
00:30:37,245 –> 00:30:42,105
like I said before, in the parking
lot, we’re going to the bar next.

449
00:30:42,375 –> 00:30:51,615
And, and when we put ourselves in an
environment of woes me, I’m a drunk,

450
00:30:51,615 –> 00:30:55,245
and yeah, it, it can be very depressive.

451
00:30:55,274 –> 00:31:00,705
And in the wrong mindset,
you’re gonna just stay right

452
00:31:00,705 –> 00:31:03,075
there in that constant loop.

453
00:31:03,435 –> 00:31:07,004
And that’s what we’re trying
to break is that loop, that

454
00:31:07,004 –> 00:31:10,095
cycle, that addictive behavior.

455
00:31:10,919 –> 00:31:17,070
So, yeah, I, I really encourage people,
read a book and find as many methods,

456
00:31:17,429 –> 00:31:20,445
whatever works for you is the best way.

457
00:31:22,034 –> 00:31:22,485
Massimo Rigotti: Yeah.

458
00:31:22,485 –> 00:31:27,134
And I, I tell you, I love what you
said just now about being a lifelong

459
00:31:27,195 –> 00:31:31,814
learner, that nothing will keep
you more youthful than curiosity.

460
00:31:32,235 –> 00:31:37,064
And when, when you don’t know something
or you see something that’s even

461
00:31:37,064 –> 00:31:39,945
remotely interesting to you, ask.

462
00:31:40,215 –> 00:31:44,655
You know, the most amazing things
and, and experiences in my life have

463
00:31:44,655 –> 00:31:49,004
been when I saw or noticed somebody
doing something and I walked up to

464
00:31:49,004 –> 00:31:51,104
them and was like, that’s really cool.

465
00:31:51,344 –> 00:31:52,425
How does this work?

466
00:31:53,024 –> 00:31:56,955
And anybody who’s doing their
job, oh, they love that.

467
00:31:57,195 –> 00:31:59,534
They would, they love
telling you what they do.

468
00:31:59,655 –> 00:32:04,155
Uh, mainly because, and I jokingly say
this often, mainly because when they

469
00:32:04,155 –> 00:32:06,945
go home at night, the last thing their
wife wants to hear is how work went.

470
00:32:06,975 –> 00:32:11,939
So they’re more than happy to tell you
about whatever they’re doing, right?

471
00:32:12,479 –> 00:32:12,699
Uh,

472
00:32:15,770 –> 00:32:19,310
so I mean, like take advantage
of that because then it

473
00:32:19,310 –> 00:32:20,600
might spark something else.

474
00:32:20,600 –> 00:32:23,930
You’re like, you know, in that
explanation you might learn something

475
00:32:23,930 –> 00:32:27,560
about something else and you’re like,
Ooh, I wonder how that came to be.

476
00:32:27,590 –> 00:32:29,900
And then you can go down
and search that out.

477
00:32:29,990 –> 00:32:33,320
And there’s so, you know,
there’s an infinite amount of

478
00:32:33,320 –> 00:32:34,550
things that you don’t know.

479
00:32:35,520 –> 00:32:40,169
And I am in a constant quest
to learn what I don’t know.

480
00:32:40,169 –> 00:32:43,980
And I can spend the rest of my
life and I won’t even get close to

481
00:32:43,980 –> 00:32:48,120
understanding most everything, you know?

482
00:32:49,169 –> 00:32:53,669
And so that is, yes,
yes, that’s totally okay.

483
00:32:53,820 –> 00:32:57,389
The other thing that this does for you,
especially if you’re struggling with

484
00:32:57,389 –> 00:32:59,985
addiction, it gives you a new addiction.

485
00:32:59,985 –> 00:33:01,545
You can be addicted to learning.

486
00:33:04,365 –> 00:33:04,695
I mean,

487
00:33:07,335 –> 00:33:08,445
Ed Watters: Yeah, that’s right.

488
00:33:08,955 –> 00:33:10,485
That, that’s so true.

489
00:33:10,485 –> 00:33:13,335
You know, shift the behavior.

490
00:33:15,270 –> 00:33:15,750
Massimo Rigotti: Yeah.

491
00:33:15,900 –> 00:33:16,860
Yeah, exactly.

492
00:33:16,860 –> 00:33:22,740
I don’t think that we ever truly lose
that portion of who we are as addicts.

493
00:33:22,740 –> 00:33:24,720
I don’t think it ever truly goes away.

494
00:33:24,990 –> 00:33:31,950
We channel it in different ways,
uh, in order to take care of that

495
00:33:32,070 –> 00:33:34,080
need within our, our own mind.

496
00:33:34,560 –> 00:33:38,879
Those that are, that have addiction
and struggle with addiction, there

497
00:33:38,879 –> 00:33:43,530
are underlying things going on in your
head that are never going to change.

498
00:33:43,530 –> 00:33:47,490
But you learn to reroute
these into productive things.

499
00:33:47,970 –> 00:33:52,139
One might argue that I’m addicted to
going through The Sober Method time

500
00:33:52,139 –> 00:33:56,550
after time, or that I’m addicted to
learning, or that I, you know, like

501
00:33:56,700 –> 00:34:02,899
those are all aspects of utilizing
what I really believe is a superpower.

502
00:34:03,229 –> 00:34:07,819
You, if you look at your addictive
nature as something that you can

503
00:34:07,819 –> 00:34:13,759
harness as, think of the drive
that you might undertake in order

504
00:34:13,759 –> 00:34:16,429
to remain addicted to something.

505
00:34:16,639 –> 00:34:21,889
I think about all the crazy things that I
did in order to just get that next drink.

506
00:34:21,889 –> 00:34:24,799
You know, like, oh, I know how I
can make some money really fast.

507
00:34:24,980 –> 00:34:27,630
I mean, like, that’s creativity.

508
00:34:27,750 –> 00:34:31,440
I mean, like, so if, if you can
channel those things into something

509
00:34:31,440 –> 00:34:33,120
productive, imagine what you can do.

510
00:34:33,120 –> 00:34:34,170
It’s, it’s endless.

511
00:34:34,260 –> 00:34:34,860
It’s great.

512
00:34:37,779 –> 00:34:38,429
Ed Watters: That’s right.

513
00:34:39,120 –> 00:34:41,640
I, I, I’m with you a
hundred percent on that.

514
00:34:42,685 –> 00:34:50,910
So, uh, Massimo, is there anything
that we’ve missed that you wanna

515
00:34:50,910 –> 00:34:52,740
add to our conversation today?

516
00:34:54,105 –> 00:34:57,254
Massimo Rigotti: I, you know, I just
would really like to add that there’s

517
00:34:57,254 –> 00:35:02,654
no reason to be discouraged with, with
where you are in your process of recovery.

518
00:35:03,134 –> 00:35:08,415
That if you’re taking the smallest
step to recognize the, that you

519
00:35:08,415 –> 00:35:13,455
need to do something and you fall
down fifty times trying to stand

520
00:35:13,455 –> 00:35:15,734
up sober, that’s totally okay.

521
00:35:16,274 –> 00:35:18,615
I, I, I did the same thing.

522
00:35:18,794 –> 00:35:24,254
I went through three
really bad, I’m, I got it.

523
00:35:24,254 –> 00:35:24,734
I got it.

524
00:35:24,734 –> 00:35:30,165
I’m standing up and then completely
fell down and destroyed what

525
00:35:30,165 –> 00:35:33,734
I had, I had, I had rebuilt in
just a short number of weeks.

526
00:35:34,424 –> 00:35:37,769
It’s okay, because I’m okay now.

527
00:35:37,919 –> 00:35:42,209
And the fact that you continue the
drive, that’s the most important thing.

528
00:35:42,600 –> 00:35:47,580
Take those small measurable steps
to, to bettering yourself until one

529
00:35:47,580 –> 00:35:49,649
day you’re on the other side of it.

530
00:35:49,830 –> 00:35:55,709
And you’ll begin to wonder how was
I ever allowing this in my life?

531
00:35:55,709 –> 00:35:59,549
How was I ever allowing
myself to not see clearly?

532
00:35:59,549 –> 00:36:06,135
And see the world in a way that is so much
more, um, so much more beautiful and so

533
00:36:06,135 –> 00:36:14,325
much more rewarding to, to, uh, experience
life without it clouded by substances.

534
00:36:14,385 –> 00:36:15,105
It really is.

535
00:36:15,105 –> 00:36:19,890
I, I, I, I don’t know that you
ever really truly recognize that

536
00:36:19,890 –> 00:36:21,390
until you get several years sober.

537
00:36:21,660 –> 00:36:25,440
And then you start seeing things that
you, you’ve realized, like you experienced

538
00:36:25,440 –> 00:36:29,070
something that you did when you had
been, uh, drunk or high, and you’re

539
00:36:29,070 –> 00:36:31,110
like, Wow, this would’ve been amazing.

540
00:36:32,580 –> 00:36:36,570
And, and, and it really is so cool
because it affirms that, you know

541
00:36:36,570 –> 00:36:40,095
what the work, the hard work that
I’ve been doing, It’s worth it.

542
00:36:40,545 –> 00:36:41,654
And that’s your reward.

543
00:36:41,955 –> 00:36:43,315
And don’t give up on yourself.

544
00:36:43,435 –> 00:36:48,615
Every, anything that, that you believe
is possible in life is possible

545
00:36:48,855 –> 00:36:51,525
with enough hard work and effort.

546
00:36:51,615 –> 00:36:56,130
And it doesn’t have to be like full
out, it just needs to be a tiny

547
00:36:56,130 –> 00:36:58,170
bit of effort every single day.

548
00:36:58,170 –> 00:37:03,750
Because consistency will beat the
hardest worker every day, that’s why

549
00:37:03,750 –> 00:37:05,550
The Tortoise and The Hare story exists.

550
00:37:05,550 –> 00:37:08,490
We always think about that as being
like some sort of speed story,

551
00:37:08,490 –> 00:37:11,130
running fast, and it doesn’t really
have anything to do with that.

552
00:37:11,130 –> 00:37:12,300
If you really break it down,

553
00:37:12,330 –> 00:37:16,830
the tortoise and hare story is just about
getting up and doing the bare minimum

554
00:37:16,830 –> 00:37:20,830
every day without ever not doing it as
opposed to the hare where, like running

555
00:37:20,850 –> 00:37:25,134
really fast and then like, you know,
having fun for five, six days and then

556
00:37:25,134 –> 00:37:27,924
the hare, you know, falls behind again.

557
00:37:28,254 –> 00:37:30,384
And you don’t wanna be the
hare, you wanna be the tortoise.

558
00:37:30,384 –> 00:37:34,464
It just like slowly moves and slowly
gets better until one day you look

559
00:37:34,464 –> 00:37:36,564
back and like, Wow, I beat this.

560
00:37:36,564 –> 00:37:37,524
I won the race.

561
00:37:38,964 –> 00:37:40,339
Ed Watters: Yeah, I like that a lot.

562
00:37:40,854 –> 00:37:44,064
You know, and a lot of it
has to do with that mindset.

563
00:37:44,274 –> 00:37:46,075
Where are you in your life?

564
00:37:46,524 –> 00:37:47,995
Who are you around?

565
00:37:48,540 –> 00:37:52,650
And there’s this thing called
the crab in the bucket syndrome.

566
00:37:53,340 –> 00:37:57,720
Are you around people that
want you where they are?

567
00:37:59,160 –> 00:38:07,615
Take a, take a shot right now in your life
and figure out, Am I doing this for me or

568
00:38:09,585 –> 00:38:12,390
because I have to be here because of them?

569
00:38:13,620 –> 00:38:18,359
You know, we’re all stuck in the
bucket, and it is okay to get out.

570
00:38:19,230 –> 00:38:26,880
Uh, I’ve had a great time speaking with
you today, and I would really like to

571
00:38:26,880 –> 00:38:29,339
do this again with you at some point.

572
00:38:29,910 –> 00:38:35,250
Could you let people know how to
get ahold of you and work with you?

573
00:38:35,700 –> 00:38:36,540
Massimo Rigotti: Absolutely.

574
00:38:36,540 –> 00:38:43,240
So anyone that is interested in what
I do, uh, check out sobermethod.com

575
00:38:43,590 –> 00:38:48,120
or @sobermethod on all of the
socials, I post daily content.

576
00:38:48,299 –> 00:38:52,830
If you go to sobermethod.com, you can
connect with me, also my own website,

577
00:38:52,830 –> 00:38:55,620
massimorigotti.com, uh, as well.

578
00:38:55,620 –> 00:38:59,819
If you’re interested in any private
coaching, uh, which I happily do

579
00:38:59,819 –> 00:39:03,029
and enjoy, that’s probably the most
rewarding thing that I do at the moment.

580
00:39:03,029 –> 00:39:05,995
So, um, thank you Ed,
so much for your time.

581
00:39:05,995 –> 00:39:07,134
I really enjoyed it.

582
00:39:07,134 –> 00:39:12,205
And I would love to, uh, do a deeper
dive into, uh, some subsections

583
00:39:12,205 –> 00:39:13,525
of what we talked about today.

584
00:39:13,525 –> 00:39:15,924
It’s been a real pleasure,
uh, speaking with you.

585
00:39:15,924 –> 00:39:19,855
Thank you so much for allowing me
to come on your, uh, your podcast

586
00:39:19,855 –> 00:39:21,444
and, and speak to your listeners.

587
00:39:23,464 –> 00:39:27,775
Ed Watters: Massimo, it’s been a great,
fantastic journey with you today.

588
00:39:27,805 –> 00:39:28,735
Thank you for being here.

589
00:39:32,580 –> 00:39:34,230
Thank you for joining us today.

590
00:39:34,890 –> 00:39:41,100
If you found this podcast enlightening,
entertaining, educational in any way,

591
00:39:41,880 –> 00:39:48,300
please share, like, subscribe, and join
us right back here next week for another

592
00:39:48,300 –> 00:39:51,690
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.

593
00:39:51,990 –> 00:39:57,529
I’m Ed Watters, your host, enjoy
your afternoon wherever you might be.