1
00:00:05,670 –> 00:00:08,560
Ed Watters: To overcome, you must educate.

2
00:00:09,950 –> 00:00:15,969
Educate not only yourself, but
educate anyone seeking to learn.

3
00:00:17,320 –> 00:00:21,350
We are all Dead America,
we can all learn something.

4
00:00:22,520 –> 00:00:26,730
To learn, we must challenge
what we already understand.

5
00:00:27,780 –> 00:00:31,180
The way we do that is
through conversation.

6
00:00:32,619 –> 00:00:39,750
Sometimes we have conversations with
others, however, some of the best

7
00:00:39,910 –> 00:00:42,870
conversations happen with ourselves.

8
00:00:44,210 –> 00:00:51,470
Reach out and challenge yourself; let’s
dive in and learn something new right now.

9
00:00:55,675 –> 00:00:58,434
Today, we are speaking with Kayla Crane.

10
00:00:58,745 –> 00:01:03,614
She is a licensed marriage
family therapist, she is also the

11
00:01:03,625 –> 00:01:06,035
owner of South Denver Therapy.

12
00:01:06,175 –> 00:01:08,385
Kayla, could you please
introduce yourself?

13
00:01:08,685 –> 00:01:11,234
Let people know just a little
more about you, please.

14
00:01:11,905 –> 00:01:12,115
Kayla Crane: Hi.

15
00:01:12,144 –> 00:01:13,384
Yeah, thanks for having me.

16
00:01:13,904 –> 00:01:17,824
Uh, I am, like you said, a licensed
marriage and family therapist.

17
00:01:17,824 –> 00:01:20,128
I specialize in couples
and relationships along

18
00:01:22,208 –> 00:01:23,108
with trauma.

19
00:01:23,488 –> 00:01:29,480
I’m trained in a specific trauma modality
known as EMDR and I use that with

20
00:01:29,520 –> 00:01:31,810
individuals and sometimes with couples.

21
00:01:33,010 –> 00:01:36,310
Ed Watters: I really want
to dive deep into what you

22
00:01:36,330 –> 00:01:39,420
think about the divorce rate.

23
00:01:39,789 –> 00:01:47,600
And what do you think is the leading cause
of this high rate of divorce in couples?

24
00:01:48,770 –> 00:01:49,039
Kayla Crane: Yeah.

25
00:01:49,230 –> 00:01:53,770
I mean, it is, uh, it is
a high rate these days.

26
00:01:53,770 –> 00:01:57,159
It is, um, fairly common, unfortunately.

27
00:01:57,799 –> 00:02:06,495
And what I see is that a lot of times,
relationships can be saved, even

28
00:02:06,495 –> 00:02:08,675
when people think that they can’t be.

29
00:02:09,075 –> 00:02:14,425
Um, but it takes finding
some help and some resources.

30
00:02:15,005 –> 00:02:18,835
Uh, couples therapy really can
work, it can be really effective.

31
00:02:19,374 –> 00:02:25,380
Um, you know, it’s, communication
is what people think of when,

32
00:02:25,450 –> 00:02:30,410
um, they think of relationship
issues, and that’s a part of it.

33
00:02:30,440 –> 00:02:37,289
But, um, really getting to like the
underlying meaning of the conflict or what

34
00:02:37,290 –> 00:02:38,950
your partner is trying to communicate.

35
00:02:39,549 –> 00:02:44,329
I think that’s a skill that you
can learn in couples therapy,

36
00:02:44,579 –> 00:02:46,239
but it doesn’t come naturally.

37
00:02:46,570 –> 00:02:54,125
And so I think unless you have, that you
are taught to do that, then that’s where

38
00:02:54,155 –> 00:03:00,365
relationships, I think, fail sometimes
when the partners don’t have those skills

39
00:03:00,685 –> 00:03:06,625
to really understand what their partner
is looking for or what they’re needing.

40
00:03:06,634 –> 00:03:11,884
Those underlying issues that are kind
of masked by the surface level fights.

41
00:03:12,990 –> 00:03:13,790
Ed Watters: I like that.

42
00:03:14,220 –> 00:03:19,210
You know, it takes time
to build a relationship.

43
00:03:19,420 –> 00:03:25,169
When we jump into a relationship, we
don’t have an owner’s manual, we’re

44
00:03:25,180 –> 00:03:30,200
going off of hearsay and what everybody
else tells us and what we think.

45
00:03:30,200 –> 00:03:34,945
And when we get into it, it’s
nothing like that at all.

46
00:03:35,215 –> 00:03:39,235
And it’s shocking and
alarming to a lot of people.

47
00:03:39,695 –> 00:03:48,204
So, I find that there’s always
patterns or cycles to arguments

48
00:03:48,204 –> 00:03:51,195
that lead to separation.

49
00:03:52,710 –> 00:03:54,620
What’s your take on that?

50
00:03:55,040 –> 00:04:01,089
Do you actually find patterns and cycles
repeating themselves over and over?

51
00:04:02,180 –> 00:04:03,400
Kayla Crane: Oh, absolutely.

52
00:04:03,400 –> 00:04:12,600
Every couple has a cycle or a dance as
people sometimes call it, um, and that’s

53
00:04:12,600 –> 00:04:14,720
kind of their communication pattern.

54
00:04:14,880 –> 00:04:20,459
And so that’s where the communication
piece is important, is to be

55
00:04:20,459 –> 00:04:22,749
able to work with those cycles.

56
00:04:23,330 –> 00:04:29,899
But, um, so for example, one of the
most common cycles that we see is called

57
00:04:29,909 –> 00:04:36,135
the pursuer/withdrawer, or sometimes
people say distancer, um, dynamic.

58
00:04:36,225 –> 00:04:40,635
And so this is the dynamic in
my, my marriage, I’m the pursuer

59
00:04:40,675 –> 00:04:42,255
and my husband’s the distancer.

60
00:04:42,825 –> 00:04:45,564
So when there’s conflict, I pursue.

61
00:04:45,945 –> 00:04:49,265
I want to talk about it, I
want to fix it right then.

62
00:04:49,305 –> 00:04:52,964
Um, it gives me anxiety not
having, not repairing it.

63
00:04:53,484 –> 00:04:57,355
And he needs some time
and space so he distances.

64
00:04:58,025 –> 00:05:03,145
But that causes more anxiety on my
end so I tend to pursue more, and

65
00:05:03,145 –> 00:05:07,095
that causes him to distance more
and it’s like a round and round.

66
00:05:07,164 –> 00:05:12,425
Um, so that one’s really
common, and there’s, you know,

67
00:05:12,465 –> 00:05:14,874
easy tools to work on that.

68
00:05:14,874 –> 00:05:23,395
But if, if partners don’t recognize that
cycle, then, um, they never, develop

69
00:05:23,395 –> 00:05:26,795
the skill to interrupt the cycle, right?

70
00:05:26,795 –> 00:05:30,305
So that the awareness is the first piece.

71
00:05:30,395 –> 00:05:33,164
Um, because a lot of people just
think this is just how it is,

72
00:05:33,164 –> 00:05:34,705
this is how we’ve always operated.

73
00:05:35,225 –> 00:05:38,994
And so being able to identify this
is our cycle, this is something

74
00:05:38,994 –> 00:05:42,475
that we need to address and we
need to be able to interrupt.

75
00:05:42,895 –> 00:05:47,965
And then the second step, obviously,
is, um, gaining tools to be

76
00:05:47,965 –> 00:05:49,635
able to interrupt that cycle.

77
00:05:52,370 –> 00:05:53,400
Ed Watters: I like that a lot.

78
00:05:53,430 –> 00:05:56,600
You really do need to disrupt that cycle.

79
00:05:56,940 –> 00:06:03,660
Uh, I lived for, heck, at least
thirty-five years with that repetitive

80
00:06:03,660 –> 00:06:06,550
cycle and trying to ignore it.

81
00:06:06,610 –> 00:06:10,370
And that’s really insane to think about.

82
00:06:10,790 –> 00:06:18,100
But once you figure out, yes, this is a
cycle, when you slow your mind down out

83
00:06:18,100 –> 00:06:25,210
of the argument phase and you identify,
Wow, we’ve been here so many times before.

84
00:06:25,219 –> 00:06:27,039
Why is this happening?

85
00:06:28,249 –> 00:06:33,469
Then we can actually start saying,
Hey, wait, can we not do this again?

86
00:06:34,259 –> 00:06:40,919
And I really think that is the start,
identifying those cycles, those patterns.

87
00:06:41,455 –> 00:06:44,095
And then disrupting
them like you just said.

88
00:06:44,625 –> 00:06:46,225
It’s very interesting.

89
00:06:47,645 –> 00:06:48,095
Kayla Crane: Yeah.

90
00:06:48,155 –> 00:06:57,485
Um, it, if you, um, if you don’t develop
that ability to interrupt the cycle,

91
00:06:57,695 –> 00:07:03,120
both partners usually just end up, you
know, kind of giving up a little bit.

92
00:07:03,170 –> 00:07:11,040
And, um, and, and they don’t often
come back to, What’s the problem?

93
00:07:11,040 –> 00:07:13,780
What are we trying to solve here?

94
00:07:14,089 –> 00:07:19,825
The focus kind of shifts
to that, that cycle, right?

95
00:07:19,855 –> 00:07:25,165
And then, um, both partners kind of
give up or whatever it is, but they

96
00:07:25,165 –> 00:07:27,485
don’t come back to the, the conflict.

97
00:07:27,804 –> 00:07:32,554
And so then the next time
there’s a conflict, that last

98
00:07:32,554 –> 00:07:34,305
one kind of gets piled on there.

99
00:07:34,345 –> 00:07:38,014
And then I hear that a lot,
people say, Every time we fight,

100
00:07:38,134 –> 00:07:40,174
all the past issues come back.

101
00:07:40,274 –> 00:07:42,754
Well, that’s because they
weren’t ever addressed.

102
00:07:43,740 –> 00:07:45,840
Ed Watters: Yes, that’s key.

103
00:07:46,020 –> 00:07:47,150
I like that a lot.

104
00:07:47,460 –> 00:07:57,520
You know, coming from a family of divorce,
my, everyone in my family got divorced.

105
00:07:57,800 –> 00:08:04,509
Out of eight siblings, I’m the only
one that has made it to the level

106
00:08:04,530 –> 00:08:07,010
I have achieved in my relationship.

107
00:08:07,250 –> 00:08:12,150
And that has not been easy because
all of the baggage that I packed

108
00:08:12,580 –> 00:08:18,340
with me from all of the experiences
I’ve witnessed from my parents, my

109
00:08:18,340 –> 00:08:22,330
aunts, my uncles, my own siblings.

110
00:08:23,530 –> 00:08:30,345
And it’s really about taking that
maturity step and saying, It’s up

111
00:08:30,375 –> 00:08:39,015
to me to grow a relationship to my
standards, not somebody else’s standards.

112
00:08:39,304 –> 00:08:43,484
And that’s that baggage that
we often pack, we’re, we’re

113
00:08:43,484 –> 00:08:46,574
like expected to be this way.

114
00:08:46,694 –> 00:08:52,084
I don’t want to be a divorced
person and it doesn’t appeal to me.

115
00:08:52,084 –> 00:08:58,690
So really stepping up and taking
the responsibility is key.

116
00:08:58,700 –> 00:09:05,150
And it’s very hard to do when you come
from a background of broken relationships.

117
00:09:05,750 –> 00:09:06,140
Kayla Crane: Right.

118
00:09:06,140 –> 00:09:11,650
And that’s a really good point
is that we all have baggage.

119
00:09:11,690 –> 00:09:19,305
We all have, every single person has
childhood trauma, um, it’s, there’s

120
00:09:19,305 –> 00:09:21,405
just kind of no way around it.

121
00:09:21,525 –> 00:09:30,175
And, um, that part is so important
because all, almost all of our maladaptive

122
00:09:30,225 –> 00:09:32,544
behaviors go back to childhood.

123
00:09:33,144 –> 00:09:36,985
And so that’s where I say like
communication’s important.

124
00:09:37,415 –> 00:09:43,115
But that’s how you address those
underlying causes and the underlying

125
00:09:43,115 –> 00:09:49,255
meanings is taking a look back to
that, to your childhood and where

126
00:09:49,255 –> 00:09:55,254
you develop these, um, today,
they’re maladaptive behaviors.

127
00:09:55,254 –> 00:09:59,585
When we were children, we developed
them to protect ourselves.

128
00:10:00,035 –> 00:10:04,895
Um, and they were actually adaptive
then, however, now we’re adults,

129
00:10:04,895 –> 00:10:08,865
we have resources that we didn’t
have as children and we can, um,

130
00:10:08,875 –> 00:10:12,164
respond, you know, in a healthier way.

131
00:10:12,744 –> 00:10:19,204
So for example, if somebody has, um, a
parent that was scary, maybe they have it,

132
00:10:19,505 –> 00:10:22,724
maybe as a child, they would
go and kind of withdraw.

133
00:10:22,854 –> 00:10:26,055
They would go to their room
and be quiet or shut down.

134
00:10:26,665 –> 00:10:30,155
And so as an adult, they
probably do the same thing.

135
00:10:30,594 –> 00:10:34,635
And so it makes sense as a
child, why a child would do that.

136
00:10:35,094 –> 00:10:39,205
However, an adult has more communication
tools, they can protect themselves.

137
00:10:39,205 –> 00:10:43,145
They’ve got all different kinds of
resources where they don’t necessarily

138
00:10:43,145 –> 00:10:45,115
need to withdraw and shut down.

139
00:10:45,774 –> 00:10:52,254
But again, without that recognition
that I’m using a maladaptive behavior

140
00:10:52,264 –> 00:10:56,310
here, um, you can’t stop it, right?

141
00:10:56,310 –> 00:10:59,740
Because a lot of people just go along
thinking, This is just how I am.

142
00:10:59,740 –> 00:11:01,160
This is just what I do.

143
00:11:01,560 –> 00:11:07,350
Um, but when we do that awareness,
we do, I do a lot of like, um, inner

144
00:11:07,350 –> 00:11:10,760
child work, stuff like that to learn

145
00:11:11,080 –> 00:11:16,280
where this came from, how it originated,
what purpose did it serve as a child?

146
00:11:16,290 –> 00:11:17,490
Because that’s important.

147
00:11:18,080 –> 00:11:22,549
And to do that work in the presence
of their partner so they can gain

148
00:11:22,560 –> 00:11:24,740
some empathy and understanding.

149
00:11:25,160 –> 00:11:29,890
And, Oh, it’s not just what
I’m, you know, it’s not me,

150
00:11:30,185 –> 00:11:31,795
this is kind of their own thing.

151
00:11:31,805 –> 00:11:33,075
This is how they operate.

152
00:11:33,445 –> 00:11:40,485
And now how can we work as a team to,
you know, change that behavior to make,

153
00:11:40,595 –> 00:11:43,664
to develop a more, a healthier response.

154
00:11:44,185 –> 00:11:49,784
And it takes both parties to do that
because if we’re asking somebody to do

155
00:11:49,784 –> 00:11:55,035
something that doesn’t feel, like, right,
it feels different than what they’ve

156
00:11:55,035 –> 00:11:59,984
known their entire life, they need
to feel safe with their partner, safe

157
00:11:59,984 –> 00:12:06,685
enough to be able to take that risk and
not use that protective coping skill.

158
00:12:07,995 –> 00:12:09,045
Ed Watters: I like that a lot.

159
00:12:09,045 –> 00:12:16,735
You just highlighted something key here
is, you need to work on this as a couple.

160
00:12:17,115 –> 00:12:23,245
I see so many times where there’s women
groups and men’s groups to separate,

161
00:12:23,315 –> 00:12:26,295
to work on these issues and problems.

162
00:12:26,685 –> 00:12:32,484
But there’s very few couples groups
that actually come together and

163
00:12:32,785 –> 00:12:36,005
talk about these hard problems.

164
00:12:36,365 –> 00:12:38,675
And how did you solve this?

165
00:12:38,785 –> 00:12:46,295
Or what, what do you think about my issue,
and could you give me some highlights?

166
00:12:46,495 –> 00:12:55,824
I think this is important to not only work
as a group with couples, but as a couple.

167
00:12:56,504 –> 00:13:02,999
Everyday, we’re working as a
couple on our relationship now.

168
00:13:03,300 –> 00:13:09,829
And when we were trying to walk it
alone and, uh, especially us men, uh,

169
00:13:09,879 –> 00:13:12,469
I don’t want to go seek counseling.

170
00:13:13,099 –> 00:13:18,510
But really, it’s the best thing
to get you set on the right path

171
00:13:18,960 –> 00:13:21,030
of success in your relationship.

172
00:13:21,459 –> 00:13:29,610
And when I learned that and the bounty
of good information that I received

173
00:13:30,400 –> 00:13:38,840
when I broke my own self down and let
my barriers be opened to allow others

174
00:13:38,880 –> 00:13:46,380
to kind of pick at these things and
rationalize, it really helped a lot.

175
00:13:46,720 –> 00:13:55,525
So back to the original point here,
there is always this work that needs

176
00:13:55,525 –> 00:13:58,324
to be done and it’s as a couple.

177
00:14:00,395 –> 00:14:06,324
Why do we not see more couples
groups helping couples with

178
00:14:06,385 –> 00:14:10,385
these couples problems?

179
00:14:11,734 –> 00:14:14,905
Kayla Crane: I mean, that’s a really
good question and I don’t really know.

180
00:14:14,954 –> 00:14:22,714
I do know, um, more common, um,
modalities, couples therapy modalities,

181
00:14:23,185 –> 00:14:29,910
um, mostly encourage like trauma
work to be done individually.

182
00:14:30,339 –> 00:14:35,110
The way I work, um, the way I was
trained is that we do the trauma work

183
00:14:35,220 –> 00:14:37,850
in the presence of both partners.

184
00:14:38,440 –> 00:14:46,949
Um, so because again, this all contributes
to their behaviors in the relationship.

185
00:14:47,559 –> 00:14:52,200
And so again, like to first
develop that sense of understanding

186
00:14:52,200 –> 00:14:53,990
and empathy from their partner.

187
00:14:54,589 –> 00:14:57,680
Um, so they can, Oh, this makes sense.

188
00:14:57,680 –> 00:15:02,160
This, you know, they can kind
of put it together and, um, and

189
00:15:02,170 –> 00:15:04,790
then so they can collaborate.

190
00:15:04,800 –> 00:15:06,899
How can we make this work together?

191
00:15:07,160 –> 00:15:09,739
What do you need when this happens?

192
00:15:09,749 –> 00:15:15,840
When you get triggered, you know,
um, work as a team to, when you see

193
00:15:15,840 –> 00:15:21,710
your partner is, you know, using
these maladaptive, um, behaviors from

194
00:15:21,710 –> 00:15:24,270
childhood, help them recognize that.

195
00:15:24,620 –> 00:15:29,049
And of course, it’s not as simple as just
telling them, you know, there needs to

196
00:15:29,050 –> 00:15:35,369
be some kind, we need to develop what
will work best for you in that moment.

197
00:15:35,849 –> 00:15:39,790
Um, and so that’s why I think it’s
really important for both parties

198
00:15:39,810 –> 00:15:44,000
to, to be, to witness that work.

199
00:15:44,339 –> 00:15:51,175
Um, of course, there needs to be this,
like, the, um, the establishment of,

200
00:15:51,275 –> 00:15:54,165
it feel, like safety for both parties.

201
00:15:54,165 –> 00:15:57,675
Especially the partner going through
their trauma, they need to feel

202
00:15:57,675 –> 00:16:03,324
comfortable and safe with their partner
in order to be able to do that work.

203
00:16:03,734 –> 00:16:10,374
Um, but if, if they are, then I highly
recommend that they do that work together.

204
00:16:10,754 –> 00:16:16,474
Um, because again, it all, it
all shows up in the relationship.

205
00:16:16,935 –> 00:16:23,745
And so it helps so much for the partner
to understand and then be part of that

206
00:16:23,745 –> 00:16:31,900
collaboration on how to best manage
the, you know, what happens in, in

207
00:16:31,900 –> 00:16:34,640
those times of conflict or triggers.

208
00:16:37,219 –> 00:16:43,760
Ed Watters: Yeah, I think it’s major if,
if we separate ourselves in, uh, separate

209
00:16:44,469 –> 00:16:49,380
areas, there’s already a separation
and we’re working on separation.

210
00:16:49,870 –> 00:16:52,220
Where, uh, No, we have a problem.

211
00:16:52,220 –> 00:16:53,500
We’ve already agreed.

212
00:16:53,530 –> 00:16:56,240
Okay, we’ll seek counseling.

213
00:16:56,900 –> 00:16:58,430
Let’s do this together.

214
00:16:58,430 –> 00:17:00,459
And that’s tough to do at times.

215
00:17:00,459 –> 00:17:03,270
I, I, I don’t know.

216
00:17:03,640 –> 00:17:06,810
So when people get mad, they separate.

217
00:17:07,420 –> 00:17:16,179
And, and I, I really think that’s
embedded in our society now where we

218
00:17:17,030 –> 00:17:23,430
get mad and then we don’t want to have
any communication, we break off ties.

219
00:17:23,780 –> 00:17:28,800
And I think this is destructive in
so many ways, because communication

220
00:17:29,500 –> 00:17:36,870
is the core of all relationship,
business, personal, or whatever.

221
00:17:36,900 –> 00:17:40,330
It’s a social arrangement
that needs to happen.

222
00:17:40,679 –> 00:17:41,950
What’s your thoughts on that?

223
00:17:43,460 –> 00:17:44,320
Kayla Crane: I think you’re right.

224
00:17:44,320 –> 00:17:51,355
I think what happens is when people do
that, when they, I think it’s just, um,

225
00:17:51,375 –> 00:17:56,945
they feel hopeless or they don’t know
what to do and they kind of feel stuck.

226
00:17:57,355 –> 00:17:59,645
Um, Where do we go from here?

227
00:17:59,645 –> 00:18:04,864
We’re not making progress, it’s just,
you know, we’re both getting frustrated.

228
00:18:05,284 –> 00:18:07,334
And so just kind of give up.

229
00:18:07,335 –> 00:18:12,459
I don’t even want to deal with this
because we’re not taught this in school.

230
00:18:12,469 –> 00:18:14,850
Like you said, there’s
no instruction manual.

231
00:18:15,390 –> 00:18:19,780
A lot of us, it wasn’t modeled
to us by our parents how to

232
00:18:19,800 –> 00:18:21,390
communicate in a healthy way.

233
00:18:21,749 –> 00:18:27,260
It really requires getting
educated and learning how to do it.

234
00:18:27,700 –> 00:18:32,600
Um, and that’s where, like I said,
couples therapy can be so helpful.

235
00:18:32,610 –> 00:18:34,220
Also, you can learn it yourself.

236
00:18:34,250 –> 00:18:40,209
You can, you know, read books, um,
watch podcasts, or watch, uh, TED

237
00:18:40,230 –> 00:18:45,539
talks, watch all these, you know,
there’s a lot of options, but it

238
00:18:45,539 –> 00:18:48,330
just doesn’t often come naturally.

239
00:18:48,700 –> 00:18:53,890
And so you’ve, and so it gets really
frustrating and discouraging when you get

240
00:18:54,010 –> 00:18:56,750
stuck, and no one really knows what to do.

241
00:18:56,759 –> 00:19:01,829
You keep going back to all you
know how to communicate and so does

242
00:19:01,850 –> 00:19:05,069
the person you’re communicating
with, and you just get stuck.

243
00:19:05,359 –> 00:19:12,370
And I think at some point, one
or both, just, Okay, we don’t

244
00:19:12,370 –> 00:19:13,710
even know what to do from here.

245
00:19:13,710 –> 00:19:19,365
So let’s just, let’s just talk about
something else or not talk or whatever

246
00:19:19,365 –> 00:19:24,175
it is, but not actually repair, right?

247
00:19:25,504 –> 00:19:26,024
Ed Watters: Yes.

248
00:19:26,395 –> 00:19:35,014
You know, many years ago, back in
the early eighties, my wife and I, we

249
00:19:35,340 –> 00:19:38,000
sought counseling for the first time.

250
00:19:38,260 –> 00:19:45,520
And we ran across a counselor, a
counselor that introduced us to Gary

251
00:19:45,530 –> 00:19:50,659
Smalley, and he introduced us to the
idea that men and women are different.

252
00:19:51,229 –> 00:19:54,620
And we think different, we act different.

253
00:19:55,230 –> 00:20:02,560
And with that going forward, building a
relationship, you’ve got to realize when

254
00:20:02,560 –> 00:20:04,679
you come in together, you’re different.

255
00:20:05,280 –> 00:20:10,429
Your, your habits are different,
you are going to annoy each other.

256
00:20:10,840 –> 00:20:16,090
And that first part of the relationship,
getting to know each other’s

257
00:20:16,090 –> 00:20:23,420
habits and all of that can be very,
very tender, if you will, because

258
00:20:23,630 –> 00:20:26,750
nobody wants to offend each other.

259
00:20:27,219 –> 00:20:34,409
And I feel that you should offend each
other early and get it out of the way.

260
00:20:34,409 –> 00:20:37,869
I think you should know
who you’re living with.

261
00:20:38,179 –> 00:20:43,020
You don’t like my toothbrush
this way, I want to know that.

262
00:20:43,429 –> 00:20:49,289
So we can work together to alter
our patterns to come together.

263
00:20:49,809 –> 00:20:56,459
And I think a lot of us, we have
these different ideas of what we

264
00:20:56,459 –> 00:20:58,644
want our relationship to be like.

265
00:20:58,965 –> 00:21:06,424
And we don’t really take in account
what our partner wants, and that

266
00:21:06,424 –> 00:21:08,984
can be very destructive in itself.

267
00:21:09,245 –> 00:21:16,315
And if we don’t know who our partner
is, it’s going to be very hard to

268
00:21:17,625 –> 00:21:20,465
mold together that relationship.

269
00:21:20,735 –> 00:21:27,835
So what’s your thought about getting dirty
right off the bat and getting to know

270
00:21:27,875 –> 00:21:31,635
people and being honest and open and true?

271
00:21:32,445 –> 00:21:34,665
Kayla Crane: I think
that’s, that’s a good point.

272
00:21:34,745 –> 00:21:42,455
Um, to be able to, you know, um,
especially if you’re going to move

273
00:21:42,455 –> 00:21:48,855
in with your partner or, you know,
develop a, um, a, uh, serious

274
00:21:48,855 –> 00:21:51,204
relationship, it is important.

275
00:21:51,225 –> 00:21:54,724
And at the beginning, you know,
the honeymoon phase, that’s a real

276
00:21:54,735 –> 00:21:57,984
thing and so everything seems great.

277
00:21:58,054 –> 00:22:02,004
See, you know, um, nothing
they do bothers you.

278
00:22:02,004 –> 00:22:06,634
And, uh, that’s just not
reality, that’s not sustainable.

279
00:22:06,664 –> 00:22:11,170
Um, I mean, biologically speaking,
that’s just not sustainable.

280
00:22:11,170 –> 00:22:14,500
You’re, you’re not developing those
chemicals like you do in the beginning.

281
00:22:15,000 –> 00:22:23,139
Um, and so, yeah, it, it’s, I think,
important to be aware of that, that things

282
00:22:23,139 –> 00:22:25,829
are going to be easy in the beginning.

283
00:22:25,949 –> 00:22:33,020
Um, and it’s going to not remain that
easy, it’s going to actually take work.

284
00:22:33,350 –> 00:22:38,044
And that doesn’t mean that your
relationship is in a bad place

285
00:22:38,044 –> 00:22:39,475
or it’s not doing as well.

286
00:22:39,495 –> 00:22:42,005
Sometimes people mistake that, right?

287
00:22:42,015 –> 00:22:46,595
Like, Oh, we’re having some, um,
disagreements or, you know, there’s

288
00:22:46,595 –> 00:22:51,114
something really wrong with us because
it’s not as pleasant as it was in

289
00:22:51,114 –> 00:22:56,055
the beginning, but that’s just the
normal trajectory of a relationship.

290
00:22:56,514 –> 00:23:03,740
Um, so I think having that, uh, kind of
awareness and acceptance that it’s going

291
00:23:03,740 –> 00:23:05,500
to change, it’s going to get harder.

292
00:23:05,540 –> 00:23:11,600
And I, I have people that come in,
you know, right at the beginning of

293
00:23:11,929 –> 00:23:18,380
their, like that transition into a more
serious relationship, um, just to be

294
00:23:18,380 –> 00:23:22,760
proactive and develop the skills and
the tools that they’re going to need

295
00:23:22,770 –> 00:23:24,629
to be successful in the relationship.

296
00:23:25,034 –> 00:23:27,565
I don’t often have those
people, but I do sometimes.

297
00:23:27,915 –> 00:23:34,494
And it really kind of sets them up for
success because I always tell couples,

298
00:23:34,494 –> 00:23:39,294
even after, you know, we finish our
time together and hopefully, you know,

299
00:23:39,305 –> 00:23:45,395
you’re on a better track, things are
all, you know, working out great,

300
00:23:45,705 –> 00:23:47,185
you’re going to hit another rough patch.

301
00:23:47,185 –> 00:23:51,125
Like it’s unrealistic to think
that you’re not going to.

302
00:23:51,485 –> 00:23:59,120
And so that’s kind of a, a goal of mine,
when I have couples leave, is to really

303
00:23:59,120 –> 00:24:06,100
make sure that they’ve got a lot of
tools, a lot of resources, um, to set

304
00:24:06,100 –> 00:24:12,740
them up for success going forward because
that’s just reality of a relationship.

305
00:24:12,950 –> 00:24:18,389
Um, there’s going to be conflict and
actually, if there’s not, if people

306
00:24:18,459 –> 00:24:24,770
come in, um, or, you know, if I hear
we actually don’t fight at all, that’s

307
00:24:24,770 –> 00:24:29,830
usually a red flag because that means that
you’re, you’re avoiding things, right?

308
00:24:29,830 –> 00:24:32,679
Because that’s not reality.

309
00:24:32,720 –> 00:24:35,770
It just doesn’t happen, two
different human beings, there’s

310
00:24:35,800 –> 00:24:38,120
going to be conflict at some point.

311
00:24:38,120 –> 00:24:42,100
It doesn’t have to be unhealthy, it
doesn’t have to get mean or anything,

312
00:24:42,139 –> 00:24:44,820
but there’s going to be some conflict.

313
00:24:45,259 –> 00:24:49,239
Um, and if there’s not, that’s, uh,
there’s a strong possibility that

314
00:24:49,259 –> 00:24:51,279
it’s just being avoided or ignored.

315
00:24:51,700 –> 00:24:59,139
So the, the goal is to learn how to have
conflict in a healthy, productive way.

316
00:25:00,339 –> 00:25:01,319
Ed Watters: Yeah, I like that.

317
00:25:01,319 –> 00:25:02,999
You have to be authentic.

318
00:25:03,049 –> 00:25:08,939
If you’re not authentic, you’re not
really in a true relationship and you’re

319
00:25:08,939 –> 00:25:11,189
going to find that out the hard way.

320
00:25:11,489 –> 00:25:20,250
So I like that there are ways to help
young couples get through this process

321
00:25:20,250 –> 00:25:26,409
in the beginning, because I highly
recommend just go and get counsel.

322
00:25:26,519 –> 00:25:31,919
If you’re really serious
about being together, there’s

323
00:25:31,919 –> 00:25:34,009
a reason you feel that way.

324
00:25:34,665 –> 00:25:42,595
And if you seek that counsel up
front, you might keep that and be

325
00:25:42,595 –> 00:25:44,684
set up for success, like you said.

326
00:25:44,784 –> 00:25:46,155
I like that a lot.

327
00:25:46,955 –> 00:25:51,585
What do you feel about negative
self talk in a relationship?

328
00:25:52,015 –> 00:25:58,895
You know, we always have this doubt
and this negative side to us, and we

329
00:25:58,895 –> 00:26:02,105
always want to drag that up in conflict.

330
00:26:04,265 –> 00:26:08,855
What, how can we avoid
negative self conflict?

331
00:26:11,925 –> 00:26:13,725
Kayla Crane: So, yeah,
that’s a good point.

332
00:26:13,735 –> 00:26:15,195
A lot of people do that.

333
00:26:15,245 –> 00:26:23,455
Um, and that is, so that’s, goes back
to, again, it goes back to childhood.

334
00:26:23,505 –> 00:26:29,785
Um, in childhood we develop, uh, like
negative beliefs about ourself, right?

335
00:26:29,785 –> 00:26:32,615
And that’s usually where we
see the negative self talk.

336
00:26:32,995 –> 00:26:39,770
And so, um, if somebody’s
negative belief is, um,

337
00:26:42,270 –> 00:26:46,830
I can’t do, um, or I don’t,
I don’t deserve love,

338
00:26:46,830 –> 00:26:49,999
that’s a very common negative
or negative core belief.

339
00:26:50,490 –> 00:26:58,765
And so if that’s their core belief,
um, then most of the conflict,

340
00:26:58,835 –> 00:27:03,565
that’s like going to be that deeper
meaning is, they’re going to pull

341
00:27:03,585 –> 00:27:05,635
out of it, that negative core belief.

342
00:27:05,995 –> 00:27:11,585
And so if my core belief is I don’t
believe I’m worthy of love, when

343
00:27:11,585 –> 00:27:15,975
I, um, when there’s conflict with
my partner, that’s going to be the

344
00:27:16,015 –> 00:27:19,365
underlying thing that I go to is,

345
00:27:19,804 –> 00:27:25,995
Oh, you’re mad at me that I, um,
I didn’t call when I was supposed

346
00:27:25,995 –> 00:27:31,164
to call you, um, that, uh, I just
don’t deserve your love, right?

347
00:27:31,175 –> 00:27:34,604
That’s what I’m, that
person’s going to often go to.

348
00:27:34,975 –> 00:27:39,924
If somebody’s core belief is
I’m going to be left, right?

349
00:27:39,925 –> 00:27:47,405
It’s something with abandonment, then the
same thing, that, um, the same, conflict.

350
00:27:47,465 –> 00:27:50,925
Oh, you didn’t call, I’m going
to take that from that, Oh,

351
00:27:50,925 –> 00:27:52,295
you’re going to leave me.

352
00:27:52,705 –> 00:27:54,365
If that makes sense?

353
00:27:54,384 –> 00:27:58,045
So that’s where the
negative self talk comes in.

354
00:27:58,355 –> 00:28:02,690
That’s something within yourself, right?

355
00:28:02,720 –> 00:28:05,990
That’s not what, even though it
feels like your partner’s telling

356
00:28:05,990 –> 00:28:09,179
you you’re not worthy of love
or you’re going to be abandoned,

357
00:28:09,590 –> 00:28:11,680
that’s what you’re coming up with.

358
00:28:12,059 –> 00:28:16,810
And so again, that’s good work that
you can do in your couple’s session

359
00:28:16,810 –> 00:28:19,220
in the presence of both parties.

360
00:28:19,290 –> 00:28:24,504
Um, so your partner can get some
awareness of, Oh, this is what

361
00:28:24,504 –> 00:28:27,134
they’re taking from our conflict.

362
00:28:27,605 –> 00:28:33,795
And we can use that once we can develop
what that negative self talk is.

363
00:28:34,185 –> 00:28:40,445
We can kind of collaborate on
a plan of, um, going forward,

364
00:28:40,905 –> 00:28:42,844
what their partner can say

365
00:28:44,240 –> 00:28:46,270
to help them with that.

366
00:28:46,270 –> 00:28:52,199
And so if they know that their partner
is going to, their negative belief is I’m

367
00:28:52,200 –> 00:29:00,800
going to be left during conflict, then
we can, maybe their partner says, I’m,

368
00:29:00,890 –> 00:29:03,170
I love you, I’m not going to leave you.

369
00:29:03,659 –> 00:29:08,040
And I’m really mad that you didn’t
call or something like that.

370
00:29:08,110 –> 00:29:14,635
Um, they can come up together with
what would feel right to help prevent

371
00:29:14,635 –> 00:29:19,024
their partner going into that place
or pull them out of that place.

372
00:29:20,565 –> 00:29:21,635
Ed Watters: I like that a lot.

373
00:29:22,035 –> 00:29:25,175
So, resources is big.

374
00:29:25,185 –> 00:29:33,025
You know, when, when we get into
counseling, uh, couples, they tend to

375
00:29:33,025 –> 00:29:38,585
think that, Well, I’ll go there once
a week and that will be the time.

376
00:29:38,595 –> 00:29:41,754
No, that’s a 24/7 job.

377
00:29:42,155 –> 00:29:50,460
Once you step into the role of accepting
counseling, that’s where the work begins

378
00:29:50,870 –> 00:29:53,110
then you have to put the time in.

379
00:29:53,670 –> 00:30:00,320
My wife and I, now we are always setting
aside time for us to learn together.

380
00:30:00,699 –> 00:30:08,775
Uh, currently we’re on a book, and
we read a chapter each week together

381
00:30:09,075 –> 00:30:16,005
and we, we have so many books
lined up for our journey together.

382
00:30:16,634 –> 00:30:24,055
Because we anticipate this work together
and it helps pull you together and unite

383
00:30:24,055 –> 00:30:30,735
you when you’re actually eager to work
together on bettering, not me, not her,

384
00:30:30,755 –> 00:30:35,370
but us and the people we interact with.

385
00:30:35,410 –> 00:30:41,780
Because a happy couple projects
a happy world and, and that’s

386
00:30:41,820 –> 00:30:43,860
really one of our missions.

387
00:30:44,880 –> 00:30:55,090
So talk to us about the work involved
in overcoming a bad relationship.

388
00:30:57,290 –> 00:30:59,770
Kayla Crane: Yeah, I think
that’s, that’s a good point.

389
00:30:59,819 –> 00:31:07,760
Um, when couples do come to couples
therapy together, that in itself

390
00:31:07,969 –> 00:31:15,280
can be, um, a strength that can
be something that off of, right?

391
00:31:15,310 –> 00:31:21,020
Like, um, when they feel so
discouraged and they come in, it’s

392
00:31:21,020 –> 00:31:23,840
like, well, you’re both here, right?

393
00:31:23,860 –> 00:31:27,289
So you’ve got that, you
both want the same thing.

394
00:31:27,570 –> 00:31:32,319
Usually I’ll ask them, you know, and
usually they want to stay together.

395
00:31:32,700 –> 00:31:37,465
Um, and so, Well, already
you guys are working together

396
00:31:37,525 –> 00:31:40,895
on a, as a team to do this.

397
00:31:40,925 –> 00:31:49,874
And so I think just being at couples
therapy together is step one, right?

398
00:31:49,875 –> 00:31:53,425
It kind of aligns you, Hey,
we’ve got the same goal here.

399
00:31:53,845 –> 00:31:59,145
And so throughout our time together,
I try to remind couples that when they

400
00:31:59,145 –> 00:32:06,210
start, um, kind of assuming, not assuming
good intentions from their partner.

401
00:32:06,570 –> 00:32:09,370
It’s like, Hey, why do you
think they’re here right now?

402
00:32:09,460 –> 00:32:12,890
I mean, couples therapy is not fun, right?

403
00:32:12,940 –> 00:32:15,590
It’s not where people
want to spend their time.

404
00:32:15,910 –> 00:32:19,340
You’re there to work to,
to make things better.

405
00:32:19,700 –> 00:32:24,419
And so I think that’s really
important for couples to keep in mind.

406
00:32:25,389 –> 00:32:30,865
A lot of times when they get to me,
they are in a really difficult place

407
00:32:31,355 –> 00:32:36,855
and it’s hard for them to see that
their partner cares at all, right?

408
00:32:36,895 –> 00:32:41,195
All they see is that, Oh, my
partner’s mad at me, they hate me,

409
00:32:41,215 –> 00:32:42,584
they don’t want to be around me,

410
00:32:42,585 –> 00:32:44,335
they don’t want to be
in this relationship.

411
00:32:44,855 –> 00:32:50,245
Um, so I try to really highlight
that, um, Well, they’re here.

412
00:32:50,265 –> 00:32:55,150
They’re doing the work, you’re both
doing the work, you’re that invested.

413
00:32:55,170 –> 00:32:59,310
And that’s a huge piece of
it, you know, both of you just

414
00:32:59,320 –> 00:33:01,970
being willing to do this work.

415
00:33:02,510 –> 00:33:08,779
Um, and then, yeah, like you said,
it isn’t just that time and session.

416
00:33:09,179 –> 00:33:14,789
The time and session I use to,
you know, sometimes I’ll ask them

417
00:33:14,789 –> 00:33:16,560
about a conflict that happened.

418
00:33:16,600 –> 00:33:21,280
Um, a lot of times I will, but
that’s not to solve that conflict.

419
00:33:21,639 –> 00:33:28,920
Um, like that’s not what, that’s not going
to be productive, um, if every single

420
00:33:28,930 –> 00:33:32,670
time they come in and they say, This is
what we fought over and we spent our whole

421
00:33:32,670 –> 00:33:35,570
entire time resolving that one conflict.

422
00:33:35,940 –> 00:33:38,920
Um, because then they’re going to
need to be coming to couples therapy

423
00:33:38,920 –> 00:33:41,469
for every conflict forever, right?

424
00:33:41,490 –> 00:33:47,299
And so sometimes I will ask about
the conflict just so we can use

425
00:33:47,299 –> 00:33:55,030
that as, um, so I can have examples
of where did this go wrong, right?

426
00:33:55,030 –> 00:34:00,340
And then also maybe kind of like
redoing it in my presence and me

427
00:34:00,340 –> 00:34:06,675
guiding them through this is how,
you know, it, it can work better.

428
00:34:07,265 –> 00:34:12,625
Um, and then having them so they
can go forward and use those

429
00:34:12,625 –> 00:34:14,995
skills on their next conflict.

430
00:34:15,295 –> 00:34:21,114
Because that’s the, the real key, I think,
with couples therapy is coming out with

431
00:34:21,304 –> 00:34:27,400
those tools and resources to be able
to get through conflict on their own.

432
00:34:27,910 –> 00:34:32,890
Um, and so, yeah, I send
homework and then, so that there

433
00:34:32,890 –> 00:34:35,100
is that time to carry over.

434
00:34:35,650 –> 00:34:39,200
Otherwise you’re, you’re with
me, you know, for a short period.

435
00:34:39,209 –> 00:34:47,180
And, um, sometimes, you know, the stuff,
it doesn’t, we’ve gone over so much that

436
00:34:47,545 –> 00:34:53,105
it’s hard to kind of keep everything top
of mind, so I try to give some homework

437
00:34:53,195 –> 00:34:59,004
to reinforce what we talked about, what
we worked on, those tools or resources.

438
00:34:59,004 –> 00:35:00,264
I think that’s important.

439
00:35:01,465 –> 00:35:04,855
Ed Watters: I think that’s where the
magic happens is in that homework.

440
00:35:05,125 –> 00:35:08,404
Because that’s really where
you’re authentic with each other

441
00:35:08,604 –> 00:35:13,844
the most, and that’s where your
comfort zone is going to be anyway.

442
00:35:14,254 –> 00:35:17,220
So that’s where you
have to concentrate on.

443
00:35:17,780 –> 00:35:24,220
So let’s segue into your resources
and your services, because I looked

444
00:35:24,230 –> 00:35:27,780
on your website and it’s fabulous.

445
00:35:27,790 –> 00:35:32,999
The resources that you offer,
free resources, uh, these are

446
00:35:33,169 –> 00:35:36,979
unique and very helpful to people.

447
00:35:37,319 –> 00:35:41,295
Could you talk to us about your
resources first, and then let’s

448
00:35:41,295 –> 00:35:43,585
segue into the service end of it.

449
00:35:44,455 –> 00:35:44,855
Kayla Crane: Yeah.

450
00:35:44,935 –> 00:35:52,635
So, um, on my website, I do have some free
workbooks, um, communication workbooks,

451
00:35:52,645 –> 00:35:59,315
and, um, like depression and stuff
that a lot of people do struggle with.

452
00:35:59,725 –> 00:36:07,395
Um, so those are free to check out, um,
on my website, southdenvertherapy.com.

453
00:36:07,790 –> 00:36:14,670
Like I said, couples therapy, I can do
couples therapy or individual therapy,

454
00:36:14,720 –> 00:36:17,980
um, throughout the state of Colorado.

455
00:36:18,009 –> 00:36:20,020
Anyone who’s located in Colorado.

456
00:36:20,590 –> 00:36:26,570
I can also offer couples coaching,
um, through any, uh, that can be

457
00:36:26,755 –> 00:36:30,965
anywhere located that doesn’t,
isn’t restricted to Colorado.

458
00:36:31,505 –> 00:36:38,475
Um, I offer couples coaching intensives
and, uh, like I said, I also offer,

459
00:36:38,525 –> 00:36:47,580
um, the trauma work, um, in, for both
couples and individuals, and I do

460
00:36:47,580 –> 00:36:51,610
incorporate EMDR if, uh, appropriate.

461
00:36:52,720 –> 00:36:53,279
Ed Watters: All right.

462
00:36:53,499 –> 00:36:58,439
And so do you have a call to
action for our listeners today?

463
00:36:59,910 –> 00:37:00,609
Kayla Crane: Okay, yeah.

464
00:37:01,350 –> 00:37:10,640
Yeah, I think just, um, trying to keep
in mind that, like I said, um, a lot of

465
00:37:10,640 –> 00:37:14,295
relationships, they’re, they’re savable.

466
00:37:14,335 –> 00:37:21,605
You can repair your relationship,
most likely, even in incredibly,

467
00:37:21,695 –> 00:37:24,565
um, difficult circumstances.

468
00:37:24,975 –> 00:37:29,765
You’d be surprised at how,
um, how much can be repaired.

469
00:37:30,145 –> 00:37:36,305
And so keeping that in mind
that there are resources for, to

470
00:37:36,305 –> 00:37:39,954
help you in your relationship,
to help you and your partner.

471
00:37:40,415 –> 00:37:43,055
Like I said, couples
therapy can really work.

472
00:37:43,365 –> 00:37:47,445
Um, finding a really good couples
therapist can be helpful, ask

473
00:37:47,445 –> 00:37:49,215
your friends for referrals.

474
00:37:49,605 –> 00:37:55,015
Um, more people than you know actually
do go to therapy, uh, you’d be surprised.

475
00:37:55,534 –> 00:38:01,285
And, um, you know, if you also just
check out some books, some reading,

476
00:38:01,415 –> 00:38:06,495
um, and that, that’s a really good
place to get started on learning

477
00:38:06,505 –> 00:38:13,305
some tools that you can take into
your relationship and use those also.

478
00:38:13,354 –> 00:38:18,375
Um, so I think those are a good place,
a good couple places to start if

479
00:38:18,375 –> 00:38:20,105
you’re struggling in your relationship.

480
00:38:20,165 –> 00:38:25,775
And even if you’re not, like I said,
even just a few, um, a few books or a few

481
00:38:25,775 –> 00:38:30,615
sessions with the therapist can really,
uh, help you out, give you some tools

482
00:38:30,915 –> 00:38:33,265
for when you do hit those rough patches.

483
00:38:33,705 –> 00:38:40,714
And again, trying to get your partner on
board, um, and so you guys can do it as a

484
00:38:40,745 –> 00:38:44,815
team and you can both be equally invested.

485
00:38:45,175 –> 00:38:49,065
And again, keeping in mind
that it’s probably fixable.

486
00:38:49,790 –> 00:38:50,820
Ed Watters: I like it a lot.

487
00:38:51,440 –> 00:38:54,270
Kayla, it’s been a
delight speaking with you.

488
00:38:54,500 –> 00:38:59,880
How can people reach out and
how can people find you, locate

489
00:39:00,310 –> 00:39:02,889
you, and interact with you?

490
00:39:03,689 –> 00:39:03,889
Kayla Crane: Yeah.

491
00:39:03,950 –> 00:39:12,219
Um, so I can be found on Facebook
and Instagram @southdenvertherapy.

492
00:39:12,234 –> 00:39:16,241
Again, my website is
www.southdenvertherapy.com.

493
00:39:16,770 –> 00:39:22,095
Um, and yeah, you can reach out
to me, uh, through any of those.

494
00:39:23,015 –> 00:39:23,625
Ed Watters: All right.

495
00:39:24,095 –> 00:39:28,965
Kayla, it’s fascinating how much
knowledge you have about relationships.

496
00:39:29,255 –> 00:39:33,424
And I want to say thank you for
sharing it here today on the

497
00:39:33,424 –> 00:39:34,725
Dead America Podcast with us.

498
00:39:37,575 –> 00:39:38,755
Kayla Crane: Yeah, it’s been a pleasure.

499
00:39:38,755 –> 00:39:40,045
Thanks so much for having me.

500
00:39:43,775 –> 00:39:45,505
Ed Watters: Thank you
for joining us today.

501
00:39:46,115 –> 00:39:52,345
If you found this podcast enlightening,
entertaining, educational in any way,

502
00:39:53,125 –> 00:39:59,500
please share, like, subscribe and join
us right back here next week for another

503
00:39:59,510 –> 00:40:02,460
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.

504
00:40:03,200 –> 00:40:08,730
I’m Ed Watters, your host, enjoy
your afternoon wherever you might be.