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To overcome, you must educate.

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Educate not only yourself, but
educate anyone seeking to learn.

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We are all Dead America,
we can all learn something.

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To learn, we must challenge
what we already understand.

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The way we do that is
through conversation.

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Sometimes we have conversations with
others, however, some of the best

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conversations happen with ourselves.

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Reach out and challenge yourself; let’s
dive in and learn something new right now.

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Today we’re speaking with Dana S. Diaz,
she’s a returning guest to the podcast.

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Her new book, Choking on Shame, The
Scapegoat Child in a Narcissistic Family.

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Dana, could you please introduce
yourself and let people know a

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little more about you, please?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Um, I was, as you said, a guest
before with my book Gasping for

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Air, which talked about my former
marriage, um, which, in which I was

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married to an abusive narcissist.

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And the abuse, living that fight
or flight mode for so long actually

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made me autoimmune and gave me a lung
disease, kind of reaffirming that, that

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cliche that stress really can kill you.

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But after that book came out, a lot
of people were asking, Well, we’re

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meeting you, we’re seeing you, we’re
hearing you, you know, in interviews,

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you seem like an independent
minded, um, strong willed, educated

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woman, like how could you end up
being in this situation where you

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were submitting to this man who
clearly didn’t know what he had?

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And, you know, it didn’t take me but a
second to say, Well, it was my childhood.

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I mean, isn’t that, I mean, I hate to
be cliche in that way and blame the

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parents, but the reality is, is that we
are kind of hardwired by the time we’re

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six or seven years old as to who we
are and what our place is in the world.

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And how to relate with other people
and roles and all these things that

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we absorb, even though people don’t
realize we’re taking, we don’t even

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realize we’re taking in this information.

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So, you know, we kind of went backwards
writing this prequel Choking on Shame,

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which goes right into my personal
story of being born to a teenage

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mother who didn’t want me and I
would argue didn’t want any children.

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But then how she went on to remain
emotionally detached from me, allowed

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the man she ended up marrying to
abuse me, um, and how that basically

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set me up on the wrong path for life.

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Yeah, it’s a riveting tale once
you dive into Dana’s story.

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But you know, it was really kind of
piquing my interest and it was one of

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my highlighted questions about why you
started in the middle of the story.

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Is there a reason for that or
is it just by chance that you

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went back to explain forward.

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Honestly, I never meant to
write more than one book.

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And when I originally set to write
anything, tell my story, so to

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speak, I wrote the whole story.

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But forty some years of very complex,
emotional, and psychological, and physical

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warfare basically, and, and unraveling
all that so that people can really

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understand the depths of it, um, it,
we just couldn’t do that in one book.

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So we just put the one book out there.

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We focused on the one relationship,
you know, a romantic relationship

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with a narcissist and how that
obviously went very wrong.

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Um, started off bad, ended up with
domestic violence even after the

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divorce, um, as we discussed last time.

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So this time, like I said, it was
more in response to readers because

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a lot of people do reach out to
me and I’m thankful for that.

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You know, that they read Gasping for Air
and they said, I have the strength now.

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Thank you.

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You know, I’m going to leave my
relationship or I just ended my

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relationship because I realized,
you know, that I deserve

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better too, and all this stuff.

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But there were still those
questions, people are always

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seeking to understand the reasons.

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Why did they do this to me?

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Why did I succumb to it?

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What made me vulnerable to it?

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And my answer, I’m not a doctor, I’m
not a therapist and, you know, I could

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sit and give reasons to every individual
person, but the best way to do anything

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was just to tell my experience.

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And my experience was that I
was basically primed for it.

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I was raised to think that I was
nothing and that I would never be

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an, I was actually told directly as a
child that nobody would ever love me.

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Nobody ever wanted me, you know,
it was the typical, I would never

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be enough, that whole thing.

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And it’s such a pitying thing.

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But what’s even sadder is that as
tenacious as I was, even as a child,

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and stood up for myself, and I would,
I would shout back and say, No, I’m

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good, I’m, I’m, somebody’s gonna love
me, you know, I would fight it, but

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I was still making it mean something
about me at the end of the day.

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And it made me feel deficient.

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And I went out in the world and the first
guy I found that gave me the slightest

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bit of attention, I just glommed on
because I was looking for that love and

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affection that I hadn’t gotten at home.

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I was that kid that didn’t get hugged or
soothed, you know, I was always a bother.

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If I scraped my knee, if I was
crying about something, I needed

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to stop feeling anything, I wasn’t
allowed to have emotions, you know?

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So we tell of all this because I don’t
think people realize when they think about

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child abuse or any abuse, even in adult
relationships, you think abuse, you think

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a woman, you know, walking around with
a black eye or a kid walking around, you

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know, with being banged up and bruised.

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We don’t understand that that’s
such a small part of abuse.

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I mean, as of last year, the Children’s
Alliance here in the U. S. said that

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only eighteen percent, I mean, only, it’s
still too much, but eighteen percent of

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child abuse cases last year were physical.

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Just 18%.

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You know, even less of a
percentage were sexual.

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Thank God, because I think that’s
probably the worst, honestly.

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Um, but most of it, most of it
deals with the psychological stuff.

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The neglect, emotional neglect, because
neglect, people think it’s just,

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Oh, you’re not feeding your child.

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You’re not providing them.

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But we all have needs and part of that
is the need to belong, the need to

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feel secure, the need to feel safe.

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And yes, we need air to breathe
and we need food for nourishment

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to survive and water and such.

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But there’s this element that
emotional neglect is huge.

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Because, I mean, look at where
we are now, September is Suicide

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Awareness Month worldwide.

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Why do people kill themselves?

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Because they’re lonely and they are
alone with that pain of that loneliness.

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It’s not because they want
to die, I guarantee you.

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It’s not because they want to die,
they just want the pain to stop.

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But where does that pain originate?

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Where does that loneliness originate?

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In childhood.

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And it’s in these neglect cases
that take up way too much.

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And, and, and you know, people think
it’s among, you know, lower income

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or, you know, minority, um, you know,
and ethnic groups, but it’s not.

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By an astronomical percentage, this is
prevalent more among Caucasian people.

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Because if you look at, you know, and
I’m just going off the top of my head,

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but Asian cultures, Hispanic cultures,
Indian cultures, all around the world,

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people are more communal.

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You know, grandma lives in the home,
maybe aunts and uncles, and cousins,

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and, and, and everybody gets raised
within that community of family.

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And here in this country, you know,
and forgive me, I mean, I’m white

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too, but we have this thing about
independence and, you know, all this

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self and me, me, me, we lose ourselves
in that because we are not connecting.

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I mean, it’s a basic
human need to connect.

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And when we’re not getting that
connection, I mean, for me, I had zero

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connection with my mother, my stepfather
didn’t even want to try to connect

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with me, I was alone as a little girl.

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And thank God I’m still standing here
and, and I’m getting better every day.

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But I mean, it’s a life, these are
lifelong damaging things that you’re

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constantly looking for love and it
creates that codependency and these

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people pleasing habits and all this stuff
that ends us up in toxic relationships

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where we’re disappointed all over
again, you know, for a million reasons.

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But, um, this is something that
definitely needs attention.

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I think if we could make people more aware
of it, then, maybe we can’t change the

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world, but we can maybe change how a few
people interact with their kids at home.

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You know, like, get off your damn phone,
stop scrolling through social media,

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when your child comes to you, just
look at them, give them your attention.

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Put the phones down at dinner,
turn the TV off, talk to your kids.

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Then maybe your kids will come
to you and want to talk with you.

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I mean, when was the last time, I
rarely see a parent outside tossing or

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kicking a ball around with their kid.

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Like, we need to start creating that
connection again and stop with the social

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stuff and stop with this electronic crap.

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Because your kid does not need to
be raised by Spongebob or whoever.

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Like, we just really need
to get people to wake up.

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Yeah, I agree 100 percent with that Dana.

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You’re getting good at this.

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Uh, I just want to compliment you on that.

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Yeah, you know, a lot of people, they
get nervous when they start touting the

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numbers, but you’re really good at that.

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And I appreciate that you brought
that awareness into what we’re doing

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because that’s truly what we’re
about is highlighting these abuses.

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And we’re getting better
ourselves at doing this.

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My wife, you know, she was told the
same thing, You’ll never find anybody.

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You’re not worth anything.

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And I can tell you, as a
witness, what devastating

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consequences that has long term.

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And it’s, it’s such a shame
because my wife is beautiful.

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She’s one of the best
persons on this planet.

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And I don’t understand how her father
or her mother could let this happen.

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But how could they even conclude that?

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It’s really shameful in many ways.

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And that really is what you
highlight, that narcissistic,

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uh, disease in our culture.

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And, and I really appreciate that you’re
taking the time doing these things.

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What has been the most educational thing
that you’ve learned since you’ve started

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podcasting about narcissistic behaviors.

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Wow.

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I mean, I think it’s interesting,
you know, I’m going to say this,

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I don’t know if it’s educational,
but it’s something that I learned.

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In the middle of a podcast interview,
as a matter of fact, because this is

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the first thing that came to mind when
you asked that question, you know, I

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got chills when you said that about
your wife, because I’m forty-eight

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years old and I’m still dealing with it.

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Getting better, improving, but my God,
it just never, that nagging feeling,

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that repeat of those words in your
mind when something triggers that.

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And, and I feel badly for my husband,
because I’m remarried, and my husband

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is so sweet, and so gentle, and so
amazing, and so understanding, even

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though he has no clue what this is like.

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Because he grew up in a tight knit,
close, you know, very nice family.

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But he’s so patient with me, thank God.

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But, you know, I was on this podcast
and I was telling this story, you know,

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about how I was, you know, born to my
mother and she was a teenager and she

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didn’t want me and how I, right after
my birth, I mean, immediately after

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my birth, she didn’t even hold me.

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I was told, obviously I didn’t
remember, I was just born, but she had

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her tubes tied right then and there.

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Right then and there.

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Which tells me she didn’t want any
children, I was kind of cramping her

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style because she had plans for her
life and I wasn’t part of that plan.

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But I remember the podcast host saying

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that she kind of felt sorry for my mother.

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And at first I was, I mean, you could
see my body here, I’m like, what?

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Like, I’m like appalled.

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Like, I’m the victim here.

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Like, I am the one that’s
had to deal with this.

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But I realized in that moment that
that was my ego being insulted.

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Because when I actually got
off that podcast and thought

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about it, I’m like, Man.

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You know, I mean, I am fully aware

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that what happened in my childhood, and I
talk about that in my book, you know, my

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mother grew up in an abusive home as well.

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She had, do you want to
talk about a narcissist?

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Her father was a drunk
narcissist, put a gun to her head.

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Like, she endured horrors that no
child should ever have to endure.

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And then the man she ended up
marrying, well, he was literally,

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both parents abandoned him and
his siblings when he was a baby.

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They were, grew up in foster
care where he was abused.

212
00:15:08,865 –> 00:15:10,874
So like, I get it.

213
00:15:10,935 –> 00:15:13,994
I understand, but that does not excuse it.

214
00:15:14,635 –> 00:15:18,584
Because they still made
a choice to abuse me.

215
00:15:18,795 –> 00:15:23,045
And having been abused, I
mean, I didn’t abuse my son.

216
00:15:23,074 –> 00:15:24,214
I made that choice.

217
00:15:24,484 –> 00:15:30,980
But going back to that feeling sorry
for my mom, I realized in that after

218
00:15:30,980 –> 00:15:37,330
I got over myself, you know, and
my own insult about that comment,

219
00:15:37,660 –> 00:15:39,410
I realized that, you know what?

220
00:15:40,205 –> 00:15:47,405
We’re all living a human experience
and who am I to say that my mother

221
00:15:47,455 –> 00:15:52,305
at sixteen years old or seventeen
years old should have known better

222
00:15:52,434 –> 00:15:57,544
or should have been more aware to
have made a choice to raise me right?

223
00:15:57,544 –> 00:16:01,275
Because I thought, Oh my gosh,
I guess I feel bad for her too.

224
00:16:01,275 –> 00:16:05,584
Because I started thinking when I’m,
you know, sixteen, seventeen years old,

225
00:16:05,584 –> 00:16:09,064
my God, you know, the biggest decision
I had was like, what was I going to

226
00:16:09,064 –> 00:16:11,954
wear that day and change ten times.

227
00:16:11,954 –> 00:16:18,845
Like, life should be that petty and
simple and ridiculous, not, Oh my gosh,

228
00:16:18,925 –> 00:16:25,640
I have now this baby and I’m living in
an abusive home where my drunk narcissist

229
00:16:25,650 –> 00:16:29,520
father is slinging stuff around and
bringing women home every night that

230
00:16:29,520 –> 00:16:33,829
my mother has to walk into, you know,
the living room and see him having sex

231
00:16:33,829 –> 00:16:36,640
with, that was the life she was living.

232
00:16:36,970 –> 00:16:41,834
And so taking a step back from myself
and looking at it objectively, I’m like,

233
00:16:41,834 –> 00:16:44,275
Man, I guess I do feel sorry for her too.

234
00:16:44,415 –> 00:16:48,324
Because, you know, we always say they
did the best they could, but we can’t

235
00:16:48,324 –> 00:16:53,405
assume that everybody opens their
eyes and says, Oh, I have to heal

236
00:16:53,415 –> 00:16:57,894
from all of this trauma so that I
can be the best parent that I can be.

237
00:16:58,074 –> 00:17:01,844
I mean, it takes people sometimes
till their thirties, or forties,

238
00:17:01,854 –> 00:17:04,035
fifties, sixties, seventies to do that.

239
00:17:04,204 –> 00:17:06,145
How is she going to do that at sixteen?

240
00:17:06,665 –> 00:17:11,994
You know, so that was probably the biggest
lesson that I’ve learned in all this.

241
00:17:11,994 –> 00:17:15,535
And I was so grateful to
that podcast host, you know?

242
00:17:16,045 –> 00:17:18,774
You know, like I said, once
I got over the offense.

243
00:17:18,774 –> 00:17:22,385
But it was a lesson for myself
too, because that’s exactly where

244
00:17:22,385 –> 00:17:24,744
narcissism comes from is the ego.

245
00:17:24,974 –> 00:17:28,014
And we all have it and
we all operate in it.

246
00:17:28,065 –> 00:17:34,330
You know, when we feel offended, when we
feel hurt, all insulted, that’s our ego.

247
00:17:34,600 –> 00:17:38,990
And, and I think that that’s what
made me realize that, you know what?

248
00:17:39,610 –> 00:17:42,330
I can let go of this.

249
00:17:43,499 –> 00:17:47,820
You know, I don’t want to say I ever
hated my mother, but I think I resented

250
00:17:47,820 –> 00:17:56,010
her tremendously for letting me grow up
that way and letting all that stuff happen

251
00:17:56,020 –> 00:17:58,330
to me and, and her participation in it.

252
00:17:58,640 –> 00:18:01,400
But I think that helped
me to release that.

253
00:18:01,700 –> 00:18:07,340
You know, a good portion of it and
realize that she was living life,

254
00:18:07,690 –> 00:18:11,200
she was dealing with things the
best that she knew at that age.

255
00:18:11,250 –> 00:18:17,080
She was just a baby herself and she didn’t
know what to do with me coming along.

256
00:18:17,385 –> 00:18:19,085
Now being a baby in her care.

257
00:18:19,365 –> 00:18:21,885
So it’s eyeopening when you realize it.

258
00:18:21,885 –> 00:18:24,795
And certainly I don’t want to
be a narcissist and we all have

259
00:18:24,795 –> 00:18:30,204
narcissistic tendencies at times,
you know, where we feel those

260
00:18:30,204 –> 00:18:32,304
things and our ego doesn’t like it.

261
00:18:32,334 –> 00:18:37,045
But I think if we can be aware of
it and move forward and move out of

262
00:18:37,045 –> 00:18:38,925
it, then that’s where we’ll be okay.

263
00:18:38,925 –> 00:18:42,715
And where we’ll have room for that
empathy that we need to have for others

264
00:18:42,725 –> 00:18:43,975
to make the world a better place.

265
00:18:45,830 –> 00:18:46,730
Yeah, that’s true.

266
00:18:47,060 –> 00:18:48,149
I like that a lot.

267
00:18:48,179 –> 00:18:53,669
And that is a good lesson because a
lot of us overlook that simple fact.

268
00:18:54,149 –> 00:18:56,839
I, I often talk to my wife about this.

269
00:18:56,840 –> 00:19:03,240
What did our family go through before we
were even born that made them do this.

270
00:19:03,570 –> 00:19:09,020
And, and if we learn to empathize with
that a little bit, our own troubles

271
00:19:09,260 –> 00:19:11,810
tend to lessen just a wee bit.

272
00:19:11,819 –> 00:19:16,920
Not, not everything, because
like you said, it’s a, lifelong

273
00:19:17,020 –> 00:19:19,170
thing, and we always feel it.

274
00:19:19,910 –> 00:19:26,610
I, I’ve been through abuse myself
and I can tell you even men that want

275
00:19:26,610 –> 00:19:33,105
to pretend that they’re tough and
they, they appear nothing shocks or

276
00:19:33,105 –> 00:19:36,254
influences them, it does in many ways.

277
00:19:36,284 –> 00:19:42,964
And that behavior, it, it really
induces this type of narcissistic

278
00:19:43,085 –> 00:19:45,645
behavior towards other people.

279
00:19:45,935 –> 00:19:47,344
Yeah, I agree with that.

280
00:19:47,344 –> 00:19:51,125
I think that comes out of an anger
because you’re repressing everything

281
00:19:51,125 –> 00:19:55,565
and, and you know, eventually it’s
going to just erupt out of you.

282
00:19:56,315 –> 00:19:58,345
Yeah, I agree a lot.

283
00:19:58,745 –> 00:20:06,690
And through discovery walking this
path of healing, because it takes

284
00:20:06,690 –> 00:20:12,310
a long time, my wife and I are
really starting to grow together

285
00:20:12,310 –> 00:20:16,480
now instead of just being together.

286
00:20:16,770 –> 00:20:18,649
And there’s a big difference.

287
00:20:19,269 –> 00:20:25,800
You know, I love my wife and
it took everything I had to

288
00:20:25,800 –> 00:20:28,340
really look deep inside myself.

289
00:20:28,910 –> 00:20:36,070
Because I was a shameful guy, I came
from dirt that was just stinky mud.

290
00:20:36,149 –> 00:20:41,259
And to clean it up, that’s
a choice, like you said.

291
00:20:41,730 –> 00:20:51,389
And this is what we have to remember, if
you continue your walk, it’s by choice.

292
00:20:52,534 –> 00:20:54,084
It’s not an excuse.

293
00:20:54,775 –> 00:20:59,265
And a lot of people need to remember
that and understand all you’re

294
00:20:59,265 –> 00:21:02,095
doing is making it an excuse.

295
00:21:03,225 –> 00:21:06,675
There’s always reasons we
don’t want to do something.

296
00:21:07,285 –> 00:21:14,504
And generally, it’s because that shame and
guilt that we feel from our own actions.

297
00:21:14,745 –> 00:21:15,764
Wouldn’t you agree?

298
00:21:16,245 –> 00:21:17,915
I agree a hundred percent.

299
00:21:17,945 –> 00:21:22,124
And I think that also there’s
this misconception about healing.

300
00:21:22,415 –> 00:21:26,925
You know, I, I used to always get
annoyed when people would say,

301
00:21:26,935 –> 00:21:30,504
cause it’s a common thing, people
say, Oh, let it go, let it go.

302
00:21:30,794 –> 00:21:35,705
And I, I remember getting frustrated with
people when they kept saying that to me.

303
00:21:35,705 –> 00:21:38,564
And I would say, It’s not like
I’m trying to hold on to this.

304
00:21:39,084 –> 00:21:42,245
I don’t want that, who the hell wants
to live with this stuff in their head?

305
00:21:42,674 –> 00:21:45,064
But at the same time,
I’ll be honest with you.

306
00:21:45,064 –> 00:21:50,084
And this has been my journey of self
awareness and self discovery was

307
00:21:50,094 –> 00:21:55,224
that as much as I didn’t want to live
like that, and as much as I did want

308
00:21:55,224 –> 00:21:57,635
to let go, I was holding on to it.

309
00:21:58,005 –> 00:21:59,625
I was holding on to it.

310
00:21:59,935 –> 00:22:04,735
You know, I, I told somebody recently
that it’s like, it’s like I was thrown

311
00:22:04,735 –> 00:22:11,434
off a cliff and I’m hanging on to a
rope and, and, and somebody you know, it

312
00:22:11,434 –> 00:22:16,094
could be any number of the people that
abused me, just as willing to cut, cut

313
00:22:16,094 –> 00:22:18,185
that rope and let me fall to my death.

314
00:22:19,185 –> 00:22:23,825
You know, yet I’m the one that put
myself, I went to the cliff with them.

315
00:22:24,065 –> 00:22:26,125
I was still holding onto that rope.

316
00:22:26,735 –> 00:22:30,324
I didn’t have to be there, I didn’t
have to put myself in that circumstance.

317
00:22:30,324 –> 00:22:34,425
So I was, I was making a choice
to hold on to that and to

318
00:22:34,885 –> 00:22:36,224
imprison myself in the past.

319
00:22:36,484 –> 00:22:40,605
And as long as I was imprisoning
myself in the past, I could not let

320
00:22:40,645 –> 00:22:43,525
in the blessings of now, the present.

321
00:22:43,905 –> 00:22:44,765
The future.

322
00:22:45,065 –> 00:22:46,335
I couldn’t be happy.

323
00:22:46,335 –> 00:22:48,965
Like that’s a common thing
and I, something I struggled

324
00:22:48,965 –> 00:22:50,955
with is, why can’t I be happy?

325
00:22:50,955 –> 00:22:54,244
Like life is good now,
why can’t I be happy?

326
00:22:54,524 –> 00:22:59,054
Because I haven’t settled the stuff
of the past, I haven’t resolved my

327
00:22:59,054 –> 00:23:04,884
anger and resentment and all that other
stuff to be able to remove that, that,

328
00:23:04,894 –> 00:23:08,004
that crap from my heart, basically.

329
00:23:08,084 –> 00:23:12,554
I know that’s not a nice word, but,
um, the only one that came to mind.

330
00:23:12,554 –> 00:23:17,624
But once you can remove that muck from
your heart, then you have room for the

331
00:23:17,624 –> 00:23:20,215
joy and the happy and all that good stuff.

332
00:23:20,485 –> 00:23:22,004
But we just don’t know.

333
00:23:22,004 –> 00:23:25,945
And, and honestly, in my defense,
having grown up in that childhood and

334
00:23:25,945 –> 00:23:31,280
then spending twenty-five years with an
abusive husband in a marriage, honestly,

335
00:23:31,280 –> 00:23:38,910
I think I was so used to the chaos that
I had just forgotten how to just be.

336
00:23:39,020 –> 00:23:44,760
And how to just be happy and how
to even let myself feel happiness.

337
00:23:44,770 –> 00:23:46,719
Because I was afraid to.

338
00:23:46,719 –> 00:23:49,470
I was like, The bomb’s gonna
drop, I can’t trust this.

339
00:23:49,810 –> 00:23:54,489
This is not what it really, you know,
this isn’t what it appears to be.

340
00:23:54,499 –> 00:23:57,989
Whether it’s a person, a situation,
I can’t let my guard down.

341
00:23:58,455 –> 00:24:03,035
Can’t smile, can’t laugh, can’t do any
of that because I got to be on guard.

342
00:24:03,315 –> 00:24:04,675
I have to be vigilant.

343
00:24:05,235 –> 00:24:11,025
Well, you know, at some point I, I
had to make the decision and, and, and

344
00:24:11,025 –> 00:24:13,434
tell myself, Lay the sword down, honey.

345
00:24:13,775 –> 00:24:15,554
Lay the damn sword down.

346
00:24:16,265 –> 00:24:19,945
We don’t have to fight anymore,
there’s nobody to fight.

347
00:24:20,255 –> 00:24:24,015
You know, and it takes a long time
and I’m sure your wife can relate,

348
00:24:24,925 –> 00:24:29,545
it takes a long time for you to
convince your mind that you’re okay.

349
00:24:29,855 –> 00:24:33,115
And then your body takes
even longer sometimes.

350
00:24:33,115 –> 00:24:38,715
That, that nervous system that, that
serves basically as, as an inner alarm

351
00:24:38,735 –> 00:24:42,414
for us, you know, to know if we’re
in danger or not, it takes it a long

352
00:24:42,415 –> 00:24:48,445
time to trust how things are now and
to settle and to know you’re okay.

353
00:24:48,925 –> 00:24:51,884
And, but it has to start in your mind.

354
00:24:51,905 –> 00:24:56,075
There is a true mind and body connection
and we have to make the choice.

355
00:24:56,304 –> 00:25:00,105
And now what, what frustrates me
now is when people reach out to me,

356
00:25:00,105 –> 00:25:04,465
and I, I feel it, like they say,
I want to, I want to let it go.

357
00:25:04,465 –> 00:25:06,505
I want to move past it, I want to heal.

358
00:25:06,505 –> 00:25:08,315
I want it to, whatever it is.

359
00:25:08,560 –> 00:25:09,330
But they don’t.

360
00:25:09,360 –> 00:25:14,030
Because you give them, you can hand them
on a silver platter, here’s what you

361
00:25:14,050 –> 00:25:16,130
need to do, or here’s what worked for me.

362
00:25:16,130 –> 00:25:18,270
And those, Oh, that won’t work for me.

363
00:25:18,340 –> 00:25:19,830
Oh, I can’t do that.

364
00:25:20,220 –> 00:25:23,540
There’s no such thing as can’t
and that’s a whole other lecture.

365
00:25:23,879 –> 00:25:25,149
It is a choice though.

366
00:25:25,320 –> 00:25:26,679
You can, you know?

367
00:25:26,679 –> 00:25:29,829
I used to coach cross country and I
used to tell the kids, No, you can’t

368
00:25:29,829 –> 00:25:36,810
run ten miles today, but you can maybe
in the future, if you start practicing

369
00:25:36,810 –> 00:25:38,500
and taking the steps towards it.

370
00:25:38,750 –> 00:25:43,299
But you’re never going to get anywhere,
you can’t if you decide you’re not to.

371
00:25:43,499 –> 00:25:45,979
If you say that to yourself, you won’t.

372
00:25:46,239 –> 00:25:51,099
So we need to start talking to ourselves
in a kinder way, we need to start

373
00:25:51,119 –> 00:25:53,099
reminding ourselves of our worth.

374
00:25:53,379 –> 00:25:55,799
You know, instead of
looking for it externally.

375
00:25:56,049 –> 00:26:00,490
And we need to start really just
kind of nurturing ourselves when

376
00:26:00,490 –> 00:26:04,570
we didn’t have that parent or,
or, God forbid, in my case, both

377
00:26:04,570 –> 00:26:07,000
parents to nurture you in that way.

378
00:26:07,240 –> 00:26:10,760
You kind of grow up and find
yourself in your forties, you know,

379
00:26:10,840 –> 00:26:14,959
kind of being your own parent and
trying to nurture that, that stuff

380
00:26:14,959 –> 00:26:17,680
inside you that needs to feel okay.

381
00:26:17,920 –> 00:26:22,620
So that you can live the rest of your life
having some, some peace, if nothing else.

382
00:26:23,865 –> 00:26:24,255
Yeah.

383
00:26:24,435 –> 00:26:26,795
Well, there’s no manual for any of this.

384
00:26:27,185 –> 00:26:33,324
And, and, you know, it’s very interesting,
my wife went through physical and sexual

385
00:26:33,324 –> 00:26:37,685
abuse and your book opens up with this.

386
00:26:38,395 –> 00:26:42,414
It’s, it’s the same, same thing.

387
00:26:42,644 –> 00:26:51,014
You know, your father or stepfather,
excuse me, he, he basically doesn’t

388
00:26:51,174 –> 00:26:53,644
realize he’s dealing with a child.

389
00:26:54,794 –> 00:26:59,445
You know, going to a TV
set and clicking a TV knob.

390
00:27:00,605 –> 00:27:04,294
I used to do that constantly
because I was trying to figure

391
00:27:04,295 –> 00:27:06,284
out what made it work, you know?

392
00:27:06,805 –> 00:27:07,345
So

393
00:27:08,534 –> 00:27:10,745
Yeah, I just liked the clicking sound.

394
00:27:10,745 –> 00:27:14,114
And I was, yeah, you’re a little
kid, you’re just messing around.

395
00:27:14,114 –> 00:27:20,920
But yeah, they, they, it’s very sad
to me that a grown man, though, can

396
00:27:20,940 –> 00:27:30,020
feel that, that need, that insatiable
need to harm a little tiny child.

397
00:27:30,830 –> 00:27:34,719
So that they can have
their peace, I suppose.

398
00:27:35,420 –> 00:27:37,850
But yeah, it’s hard.

399
00:27:38,100 –> 00:27:38,770
It’s hard.

400
00:27:38,770 –> 00:27:42,940
And you know, when I grew up, when
I got to be a teenager and got to be

401
00:27:43,390 –> 00:27:48,520
the same size, I was bigger and I was
angrier, I got pretty damn angry by the

402
00:27:48,530 –> 00:27:50,820
time I was fifteen, sixteen you know?

403
00:27:51,010 –> 00:27:55,210
But to have your own mother put her
hands around your neck and, and to

404
00:27:55,220 –> 00:27:59,099
black out and think you’re gonna,
you’re, you know, I remember thinking,

405
00:27:59,100 –> 00:28:00,520
my, my mother’s going to kill me.

406
00:28:00,559 –> 00:28:05,540
I’m, my life is over right now, you
know, and, and that’s a horrible thing.

407
00:28:05,540 –> 00:28:07,370
And it’s hard to get past that.

408
00:28:07,370 –> 00:28:11,885
Because, you know, I always joke,
but it’s not funny, like, you know,

409
00:28:11,935 –> 00:28:15,505
I know Charles Manson was an orphan,
but you know, like Jeffrey Dahmer, I’m

410
00:28:15,505 –> 00:28:20,735
thinking of like serial killers, like
did horrific things, chopping people

411
00:28:20,735 –> 00:28:22,545
up and hiding them in his freezer.

412
00:28:22,935 –> 00:28:24,175
You know, dozens of people.

413
00:28:24,424 –> 00:28:28,235
Yet his mother was still sitting behind
him in court, that was still her son.

414
00:28:28,235 –> 00:28:31,764
She acknowledged he did wrong, but
she still loved her son and was there.

415
00:28:31,795 –> 00:28:36,374
And I’m thinking, my God, I was like
the ultimate people pleasing child.

416
00:28:36,375 –> 00:28:39,784
Like I, I strove for perfection.

417
00:28:39,804 –> 00:28:44,565
I strove to do everything exactly
right, I was a straight arrow.

418
00:28:45,280 –> 00:28:50,149
You know, good kid, good grades, never
got in trouble, never smoked, never drank,

419
00:28:50,530 –> 00:28:51,160
like why?

420
00:28:51,440 –> 00:28:55,070
I just wanted to be seen, I
just wanted to be acknowledged

421
00:28:55,449 –> 00:28:57,610
and there was just nothing.

422
00:28:57,699 –> 00:29:00,799
I could, and so that, that’s a hard thing.

423
00:29:00,800 –> 00:29:04,400
I mean, I watched my barn cats
reject some kittens sometimes.

424
00:29:04,400 –> 00:29:09,160
But my God, when it’s your mother,
like, how can you, how can you

425
00:29:09,160 –> 00:29:12,700
believe anybody ever would love
you if your own mother can’t?

426
00:29:12,960 –> 00:29:17,129
Because she’s the one person who’s
supposed to when nobody else does.

427
00:29:17,200 –> 00:29:18,640
And that’s a tough one.

428
00:29:19,995 –> 00:29:20,304
Yeah.

429
00:29:20,935 –> 00:29:23,685
So, so, you know, it’s very interesting.

430
00:29:23,875 –> 00:29:28,764
We talk about generational
curses and traumas.

431
00:29:30,605 –> 00:29:35,745
That choice to change, you know,
that, that is really heavy.

432
00:29:35,745 –> 00:29:42,944
And I’m still trying to pinpoint what
makes us change and choose to not

433
00:29:43,044 –> 00:29:46,125
follow that generational guidance.

434
00:29:46,405 –> 00:29:52,360
Because I think this really deep and
we need to really kind of pinpoint

435
00:29:52,660 –> 00:29:59,320
the why and what makes the individual
choose to go in a different direction.

436
00:30:00,665 –> 00:30:04,495
Yeah, that’s interesting because
I don’t have the answer to that.

437
00:30:05,140 –> 00:30:10,010
I can only speak to my experience
and what, what was different for me.

438
00:30:10,040 –> 00:30:11,230
I think two things.

439
00:30:12,000 –> 00:30:16,429
One of the biggest things was
that we have to acknowledge the

440
00:30:16,429 –> 00:30:19,280
fact that society progresses.

441
00:30:19,740 –> 00:30:26,370
Because I’m generation X and I’ve
noticed that the baby boomer generation,

442
00:30:26,370 –> 00:30:32,240
which is the one that came before
mine, baby boomers and older tend to

443
00:30:32,250 –> 00:30:36,950
have come from that hush hush polite
society where you don’t talk about it.

444
00:30:37,200 –> 00:30:37,530
I mean

445
00:30:37,530 –> 00:30:41,019
women in the thirties, forties,
and fifties, and sixties were

446
00:30:41,019 –> 00:30:43,270
being, you know, abused by husbands.

447
00:30:43,519 –> 00:30:46,059
You know, they put
concealer over their eyes

448
00:30:46,310 –> 00:30:47,610
and they hid, you know,

449
00:30:47,610 –> 00:30:52,545
they had the nice wavy curls, you know,
those fancy hairdos, and they kept their

450
00:30:52,545 –> 00:30:57,145
head down when they went to the grocery
store and nobody asked and nobody told

451
00:30:57,405 –> 00:31:00,475
and it just was what
it was, same with kids.

452
00:31:00,705 –> 00:31:04,734
But we also had that, you know, we
didn’t have electronics back, you

453
00:31:04,735 –> 00:31:09,110
know, even when I was a kid that if
somebody had an issue with you, they

454
00:31:09,120 –> 00:31:11,100
beat your butt on the school playground.

455
00:31:11,330 –> 00:31:15,340
They beat your butt on your lawn outside
your house, they came knocking on your

456
00:31:15,340 –> 00:31:19,630
door looking for you and grabbed you
by the cuff of your shirt, drug you

457
00:31:19,630 –> 00:31:21,470
outside and beat the crap out of you.

458
00:31:21,680 –> 00:31:23,729
And nobody’s parent was stopping it.

459
00:31:23,729 –> 00:31:27,200
And nobody, you know, you had a
black eye, you had some bruises

460
00:31:28,039 –> 00:31:29,799
and that’s just how it was.

461
00:31:29,799 –> 00:31:33,249
And you took it because you
knew you probably, you know, had

462
00:31:33,249 –> 00:31:34,719
done something to deserve it.

463
00:31:35,050 –> 00:31:36,820
That’s just how life was.

464
00:31:37,100 –> 00:31:42,930
So I think to some extent,
there was an acceptance.

465
00:31:43,140 –> 00:31:49,840
And you add on to that, I mean, this
is, I’m tying in spousal abuse and

466
00:31:49,840 –> 00:31:53,970
child abuse because it is, it kind
of does go hand in hand, obviously.

467
00:31:54,320 –> 00:32:00,535
Um, but even as recent as the seventies
when I was born, a woman in the

468
00:32:00,545 –> 00:32:06,455
United States of America, all these
freedoms we talk about now, a woman

469
00:32:06,455 –> 00:32:12,435
could not file charges against her
husband for domestic abuse or violence.

470
00:32:12,964 –> 00:32:15,095
Oh my gosh.

471
00:32:15,484 –> 00:32:19,174
And you know, the thing is, is
that men get abused by women too.

472
00:32:19,325 –> 00:32:23,655
But a man back then would oh, there
was too much pride in being a man.

473
00:32:23,675 –> 00:32:27,675
A man would never even admit
that his wife was abusing.

474
00:32:27,765 –> 00:32:32,874
So you have to remember that now that,
I hate to say, I go back to the social

475
00:32:32,875 –> 00:32:36,064
stuff, social media, the internet, really,

476
00:32:36,064 –> 00:32:36,935
when did it come out?

477
00:32:36,945 –> 00:32:42,485
1995 I think was the first time the
internet was available to everybody, and

478
00:32:42,820 –> 00:32:46,940
now that there’s all this information
and people are connecting and things are

479
00:32:46,950 –> 00:32:52,860
being exposed, there, I think everything’s
kind of being blown open to where we

480
00:32:52,860 –> 00:32:54,930
don’t have to keep secrets anymore.

481
00:32:55,400 –> 00:33:01,195
So I think that’s partially
why we are more vocal about it

482
00:33:01,225 –> 00:33:05,105
and we’re more, you know, we’re
bringing more awareness to things.

483
00:33:05,175 –> 00:33:09,135
And thank goodness, because nobody
should have to hide that stuff.

484
00:33:09,135 –> 00:33:13,434
And I think I should have a right
as a child, or as a wife, or if

485
00:33:13,435 –> 00:33:16,954
it were a husband, or whatever it
is, to go to somebody and say this

486
00:33:16,955 –> 00:33:18,684
is happening and it needs to stop.

487
00:33:18,965 –> 00:33:23,105
And that’s where we’re still
struggling in this society.

488
00:33:23,405 –> 00:33:28,934
Because you know they say seventy
some percent of child abuse cases

489
00:33:29,640 –> 00:33:31,810
are actually reported by teachers.

490
00:33:32,840 –> 00:33:37,490
And that bothers me because you
cannot tell me that if there’s a

491
00:33:37,530 –> 00:33:42,380
two parent household or even more
than one child in a household that

492
00:33:42,380 –> 00:33:43,800
they don’t know what’s going on.

493
00:33:44,040 –> 00:33:47,490
And you can’t tell me the neighbor
isn’t seeing it, or the bus driver

494
00:33:47,490 –> 00:33:51,800
on the school bus, or the people
at church, or at the library, or

495
00:33:51,800 –> 00:33:53,750
wherever else this kid is going.

496
00:33:54,730 –> 00:34:00,815
And it just pains me, it pains
me because I was that kid.

497
00:34:01,285 –> 00:34:06,755
I was that kid that also went to school
with my head down, wearing long sleeves

498
00:34:06,764 –> 00:34:11,565
when it was hot in the summer to hide
the marks on my arms and, and on my legs.

499
00:34:11,565 –> 00:34:15,964
And, and I wanted somebody to see, and
on the very rare occasions, somebody

500
00:34:15,964 –> 00:34:17,635
would say, Is there something going on?

501
00:34:17,675 –> 00:34:20,465
Nope, nothing’s, because I was terrified.

502
00:34:20,735 –> 00:34:23,935
But we need people to be more involved.

503
00:34:23,955 –> 00:34:28,165
And, and, you know, not necessarily
push the child more to expose it,

504
00:34:28,165 –> 00:34:30,855
but maybe bring more attention to it.

505
00:34:31,115 –> 00:34:33,355
You know, there has to be consequences.

506
00:34:33,385 –> 00:34:38,664
Because I look back at my situation and
granted I haven’t, I’m not really fully

507
00:34:38,665 –> 00:34:44,550
aware of how child services works in
my area, nevermind all areas of this

508
00:34:44,580 –> 00:34:50,319
country, but in the nineties when they
came into my life and I had a round

509
00:34:50,340 –> 00:34:52,300
with them, they didn’t do a whole lot.

510
00:34:52,579 –> 00:34:55,010
They didn’t do crap, honestly.

511
00:34:55,340 –> 00:35:00,310
They interviewed my, my mother and
stepfather’s employees at their business

512
00:35:00,310 –> 00:35:04,035
who said they were these great, great
people who would never do that to me.

513
00:35:04,255 –> 00:35:08,055
Well, they wanted their
jobs, my goodness gracious.

514
00:35:08,085 –> 00:35:12,065
I mean, ask somebody else,
because let me tell you something,

515
00:35:14,255 –> 00:35:16,445
child services didn’t do anything.

516
00:35:16,625 –> 00:35:19,724
And they left my brother,
my little brother.

517
00:35:19,734 –> 00:35:23,865
Cause my mother did end up reversing
her tubal ligation and having a child

518
00:35:23,875 –> 00:35:26,435
with my stepfather because I wasn’t his.

519
00:35:26,435 –> 00:35:31,480
He made that so blatantly a big
part of my childhood that I wasn’t

520
00:35:31,490 –> 00:35:32,960
his, he wanted his own child.

521
00:35:33,310 –> 00:35:34,620
So they ended up having a child.

522
00:35:34,620 –> 00:35:38,710
But even when I was under investigation
all of this stuff, they left

523
00:35:38,710 –> 00:35:40,069
my little brother in the home.

524
00:35:40,310 –> 00:35:43,959
And it just made me remember that book,
I don’t know if anyone has read this,

525
00:35:43,970 –> 00:35:45,869
it’s called A Child Called It.

526
00:35:46,060 –> 00:35:49,350
I think David Pelzer is the author.

527
00:35:49,630 –> 00:35:51,710
This came out back in the nineties.

528
00:35:51,860 –> 00:35:55,710
But he was one of five children,
one of the worst cases of

529
00:35:55,710 –> 00:35:57,600
abuse in California history.

530
00:35:57,880 –> 00:36:03,300
And he was the only one abused in that
house by the mother and severely abused.

531
00:36:03,580 –> 00:36:08,250
The other kids noticed it, would
even leave the room, sometimes even

532
00:36:08,250 –> 00:36:13,764
participate as far as helping the
mother prepare or arrange for it.

533
00:36:14,125 –> 00:36:16,385
And the husband, the
father, was in the home.

534
00:36:16,415 –> 00:36:22,205
And also the one thing that startled me in
that book was, one of the times that the,

535
00:36:22,275 –> 00:36:26,935
you know, the, the author was saying he,
he, he knew he was about to get abused.

536
00:36:27,074 –> 00:36:30,654
You know, his mother would tell
him, Okay, this is happening now.

537
00:36:30,654 –> 00:36:35,605
And I mean, she was like putting
an iron on him and burning him, and

538
00:36:35,865 –> 00:36:40,615
putting his hands on open flames on
the, just doing horrific things to him.

539
00:36:41,105 –> 00:36:45,525
And the dad was like, Okay, I’m
going to take the other kids, the

540
00:36:45,525 –> 00:36:47,535
other four kids out for ice cream.

541
00:36:47,755 –> 00:36:50,075
Like, are you kidding me right now?

542
00:36:50,335 –> 00:36:53,125
He knew that his wife was about to abuse.

543
00:36:53,415 –> 00:36:56,855
But this is, this is the thing,
granted that that’s, you know,

544
00:36:56,875 –> 00:37:00,974
there are these extraordinarily,
you know, exceptional stories.

545
00:37:01,405 –> 00:37:04,425
And, and mine is certainly
not one of those.

546
00:37:05,270 –> 00:37:10,420
But the fact that this happens every
single day and nobody, even the people

547
00:37:10,420 –> 00:37:12,350
in the home, don’t do anything about it.

548
00:37:12,920 –> 00:37:14,250
Because I’m going to tell you something.

549
00:37:14,250 –> 00:37:19,259
When my book came out, um, it
was released a little early.

550
00:37:19,260 –> 00:37:26,239
So I got a phone call, said unknown
number, and when I answered, I

551
00:37:26,239 –> 00:37:30,290
recognized the voice, but you know
how you can’t quite place it, and

552
00:37:30,300 –> 00:37:32,060
she said, Do you know who this is?

553
00:37:32,920 –> 00:37:36,330
And I was like, I felt embarrassed,
you know, like, I’m like,

554
00:37:36,330 –> 00:37:37,570
I should know who this is.

555
00:37:37,600 –> 00:37:38,480
But I didn’t know who it was.

556
00:37:39,140 –> 00:37:41,470
Anyway, she, she told me who she was.

557
00:37:41,739 –> 00:37:45,470
It was somebody that, she
was an adult in my life.

558
00:37:46,120 –> 00:37:47,520
So she cut my hair.

559
00:37:47,669 –> 00:37:50,699
She was my hairdresser, I guess you
would say, when I was a little girl

560
00:37:50,699 –> 00:37:55,260
from the time I was probably five or
six all the way up through college.

561
00:37:55,860 –> 00:37:58,525
And I mean, this is a hairdresser.

562
00:37:59,645 –> 00:38:01,015
How often did I see her?

563
00:38:01,015 –> 00:38:02,365
A few times a year?

564
00:38:03,875 –> 00:38:06,285
She says, I’m so glad to hear your voice.

565
00:38:06,435 –> 00:38:08,345
She says, I saw your book.

566
00:38:08,964 –> 00:38:14,035
A friend of mine told me you released
this book, and she said, You know,

567
00:38:14,324 –> 00:38:16,134
I didn’t know your stepfather.

568
00:38:16,175 –> 00:38:19,085
I only saw your mother when
she would bring you in.

569
00:38:19,545 –> 00:38:22,885
But she says, Your mother
was always so melancholy.

570
00:38:23,005 –> 00:38:26,825
Like I knew there was something going
on and I can tell looking at you every

571
00:38:26,825 –> 00:38:28,345
time there was something going on.

572
00:38:28,345 –> 00:38:34,214
And she said, I always thought I would
look at the news and see that he had

573
00:38:34,214 –> 00:38:38,975
killed you and your mother, like in some
kind of like family murder, suicide thing.

574
00:38:38,975 –> 00:38:41,365
And just leave your bodies
at the side of the road dead.

575
00:38:41,665 –> 00:38:43,765
So she says, I’m so glad you’re okay.

576
00:38:45,380 –> 00:38:48,680
And I mean, it was touching that
she got in touch with me and

577
00:38:48,680 –> 00:38:50,210
I was glad to hear from her.

578
00:38:50,640 –> 00:38:57,070
But, again, it reiterated that, this
frustration I have that if somebody

579
00:38:57,080 –> 00:39:01,800
even remotely thought, I mean, why
didn’t you err on the side of caution?

580
00:39:02,250 –> 00:39:04,170
Why didn’t you alert somebody?

581
00:39:04,180 –> 00:39:09,300
Why didn’t you pull me aside
and ask me what was going on?

582
00:39:09,580 –> 00:39:13,720
Why am I forty-eight years old and
just now hearing that somebody that

583
00:39:13,720 –> 00:39:18,689
last saw me thirty years ago is
telling me she’s glad I’m alive.

584
00:39:18,690 –> 00:39:22,739
And, and, and we have, you know,
we have communicated since.

585
00:39:22,739 –> 00:39:27,005
And I don’t hold anybody responsible
because at the end of the day, the

586
00:39:27,005 –> 00:39:29,025
responsible party is the abuser.

587
00:39:29,255 –> 00:39:32,635
But going back to child services,
I just want to say one more thing.

588
00:39:32,865 –> 00:39:35,675
And this is what really
makes me angry about this.

589
00:39:35,675 –> 00:39:40,565
And what really needs to still change
in society is that, what do they do?

590
00:39:41,164 –> 00:39:44,035
They took me out of the home temporarily.

591
00:39:44,245 –> 00:39:48,165
Granted I got sent back, but they
take the child out of the home.

592
00:39:49,130 –> 00:39:54,120
Sometimes in the more severe cases or
when they actually do their job and see

593
00:39:54,120 –> 00:39:59,300
that this child needs help, the child
gets whatever services, counseling,

594
00:39:59,310 –> 00:40:01,560
therapy, whatever treatments they need.

595
00:40:03,180 –> 00:40:03,980
Thank God.

596
00:40:04,750 –> 00:40:06,210
But what about the abusers?

597
00:40:09,390 –> 00:40:11,510
Why aren’t they being
removed from the home?

598
00:40:12,130 –> 00:40:15,430
Why aren’t they getting the
treatment that they need?

599
00:40:16,330 –> 00:40:20,140
Why aren’t they being forced, I’m
sorry, healing should be a choice,

600
00:40:20,160 –> 00:40:25,580
and it’s a lot of work, but why aren’t
they attempting to rehabilitate the

601
00:40:25,580 –> 00:40:28,010
people that are doing these things?

602
00:40:28,210 –> 00:40:32,510
Because until we go, you know, you
can’t just put a bandaid on something,

603
00:40:32,850 –> 00:40:34,380
you have to go to the core of it.

604
00:40:34,410 –> 00:40:36,860
That’s what healing is
when we’re trying to heal.

605
00:40:37,100 –> 00:40:40,330
But I can heal all day long,
but you want to know something?

606
00:40:40,570 –> 00:40:42,290
My mother and I are estranged.

607
00:40:42,290 –> 00:40:45,179
My stepfather, he doesn’t talk
to me either, and I don’t really

608
00:40:45,179 –> 00:40:49,590
care about him, but there’s no
healing going on in their house.

609
00:40:49,940 –> 00:40:53,000
Nobody has gone to therapy
to face their trauma.

610
00:40:53,730 –> 00:40:58,545
They are going through the same
motions every day like nothing is

611
00:40:58,545 –> 00:41:02,335
wrong, refusing to face it, and
projecting it on to other people.

612
00:41:02,385 –> 00:41:04,745
Me, mainly, because I’m the scapegoat.

613
00:41:05,085 –> 00:41:11,474
Even though we have no contact, I’m
still being talked about, lied about, and

614
00:41:11,474 –> 00:41:17,064
scapegoated as the reason for all of their
problems and all of their angst and woes.

615
00:41:17,434 –> 00:41:20,155
And I think that is the
most ridiculous thing.

616
00:41:20,165 –> 00:41:24,605
We have to catch up, we have to start
taking these parents out of the homes.

617
00:41:25,145 –> 00:41:29,935
Stop with trying to fix the kid because
there’s nothing wrong with the kid,

618
00:41:30,175 –> 00:41:31,815
there’s something wrong with the parent.

619
00:41:33,035 –> 00:41:33,425
Yeah.

620
00:41:33,465 –> 00:41:39,825
Yeah, there’s big problems and issues
with the whole system, how we handle this.

621
00:41:39,895 –> 00:41:45,875
And, you know, the, the big thing here,
Dana, I think you really highlighted

622
00:41:46,084 –> 00:41:52,824
is, awareness is being brought since
the introduction of the internet.

623
00:41:52,994 –> 00:41:57,225
And there’s more people like me
and you sitting, talking, and

624
00:41:57,225 –> 00:42:03,155
then sharing our talk and people
are going, Yeah, that’s right.

625
00:42:03,795 –> 00:42:06,025
And that’s empowering.

626
00:42:06,515 –> 00:42:14,245
So I think with the advent of the
computer and the internet, there’s so

627
00:42:14,245 –> 00:42:22,180
much wrong with it too, but yet, it is
giving some life saving, in a degree,

628
00:42:23,820 –> 00:42:28,070
harmonious balance to discussion.

629
00:42:28,450 –> 00:42:33,599
And I really think that is
what’s needed, is communication.

630
00:42:33,600 –> 00:42:40,350
Because that’s really how we fix things,
is we communicate the problem and then we

631
00:42:40,670 –> 00:42:44,230
can communicate a way to fix the problem.

632
00:42:44,570 –> 00:42:49,000
So I really do think you just
highlighted a big thing there.

633
00:42:50,380 –> 00:42:58,999
The tipping point surely must
have been that availability of the

634
00:42:58,999 –> 00:43:01,630
internet to reach out to others.

635
00:43:02,410 –> 00:43:07,240
Because we can see more
than ever, I’m not alone.

636
00:43:07,850 –> 00:43:10,780
And I think it’s really
huge what’s being done here.

637
00:43:12,060 –> 00:43:13,020
I like it a lot.

638
00:43:15,139 –> 00:43:16,709
And that I will agree with.

639
00:43:16,760 –> 00:43:20,299
Yeah, I agree with that because
that’s the one thing that, I mean,

640
00:43:20,330 –> 00:43:24,489
I didn’t even get on the internet or
social, well, I should say internet,

641
00:43:24,489 –> 00:43:30,125
I didn’t get onto social media until
probably 20, 21, I mean, it’s very

642
00:43:30,125 –> 00:43:31,985
recent, just the last couple of years.

643
00:43:32,235 –> 00:43:36,245
But it’s something that definitely,
I don’t think it’s the cure all, but

644
00:43:36,245 –> 00:43:38,545
I think it definitely helps to know.

645
00:43:38,554 –> 00:43:43,194
Because I think we need to know that
it’s not just us because that helps

646
00:43:43,194 –> 00:43:45,405
us realize that it’s not personal.

647
00:43:45,904 –> 00:43:50,395
I mean, even though we’ve internalized
it as this is about me and who I

648
00:43:50,395 –> 00:43:54,805
am, and, and I have no place, and
I’m deficient and I’m not enough.

649
00:43:55,245 –> 00:44:00,515
When we see, Oh, there’s a whole
group called, you know, Daughters of

650
00:44:00,515 –> 00:44:03,885
Narcissistic Mothers and Daughters of
Narcissistic Fathers and, and there’s

651
00:44:03,945 –> 00:44:05,715
thousands of people in this group.

652
00:44:06,065 –> 00:44:07,424
Oh, I’m not alone.

653
00:44:07,424 –> 00:44:10,764
And people are sharing, you
know, snippets of their story.

654
00:44:10,764 –> 00:44:13,285
And you’re like, Oh my gosh, me too.

655
00:44:13,475 –> 00:44:14,645
That happened to me.

656
00:44:14,824 –> 00:44:17,885
Oh, but you know, this is
what helped me work that out.

657
00:44:17,885 –> 00:44:18,975
Or this is what I do.

658
00:44:18,975 –> 00:44:23,945
And that’s, and so to have that support,
definitely, definitely helps you.

659
00:44:23,945 –> 00:44:27,715
Because it’s essentially, that’s
helping create that connection that

660
00:44:27,715 –> 00:44:31,395
you didn’t have early in childhood
that, that made you feel this way.

661
00:44:32,525 –> 00:44:33,025
That’s right.

662
00:44:33,195 –> 00:44:35,375
It’s a good catalyst, that’s for sure.

663
00:44:36,145 –> 00:44:41,824
Dana, we could talk for hours
on this and, you know, it just

664
00:44:41,825 –> 00:44:43,605
seems like we just got started.

665
00:44:44,605 –> 00:44:46,595
However, our time is short.

666
00:44:47,125 –> 00:44:51,985
Uh, would you please let people
know where they can find your book?

667
00:44:52,725 –> 00:44:55,805
And do you have a call
to action for people?

668
00:44:56,155 –> 00:44:57,715
Yes, absolutely.

669
00:44:57,785 –> 00:45:02,715
Number one, my website, danasdiaz.com,
you will find the links for

670
00:45:02,715 –> 00:45:07,185
both books, Gasping for Air and
Choking on Shame on the website.

671
00:45:07,185 –> 00:45:12,665
Links to Facebook, links to Instagram, you
can email me, message me on social media.

672
00:45:12,685 –> 00:45:16,435
I respond personally, I don’t
have any automated message.

673
00:45:16,435 –> 00:45:20,575
So, you know, you will get a response
actually from me and I’m happy to

674
00:45:20,575 –> 00:45:22,464
hear from people, whatever it is.

675
00:45:22,464 –> 00:45:27,344
And if I can’t help you, I will
direct you to whatever resources that

676
00:45:27,395 –> 00:45:29,445
I think might be able to help you.

677
00:45:29,835 –> 00:45:31,935
Um, call to action.

678
00:45:31,985 –> 00:45:35,195
I would just, this is all
I ever ask from anybody.

679
00:45:35,195 –> 00:45:38,075
And it sounds so like, you know,
like I want everyone to get

680
00:45:38,075 –> 00:45:39,894
in a circle and sing Kumbaya.

681
00:45:40,265 –> 00:45:47,495
But all I ever ask for people is just
be kind and, you know, it’s asking

682
00:45:47,495 –> 00:45:49,295
you to have this domino effect.

683
00:45:49,315 –> 00:45:50,885
Just start in your home.

684
00:45:51,164 –> 00:45:55,885
If you have a roommate, a spouse, a
kid, whoever you’re living with, be

685
00:45:55,885 –> 00:46:01,844
kind, give them grace, give yourself
that same grace and that same kindness.

686
00:46:02,184 –> 00:46:07,450
And I think if we can just start there
with that small little piece, then

687
00:46:07,450 –> 00:46:12,420
maybe we’re going to go out in the world
and spread it like that domino effect.

688
00:46:12,420 –> 00:46:16,329
Because I mean, sometimes that
really nasty, angry person, that

689
00:46:16,330 –> 00:46:20,770
person that’s just obstinate and
rude, you know, I, I hate to say,

690
00:46:20,770 –> 00:46:22,490
but sometimes they just need a hug.

691
00:46:22,499 –> 00:46:27,780
Sometimes maybe they’re like me,
maybe just nobody loved them.

692
00:46:28,060 –> 00:46:30,070
They may be a narcissist,
but you know what?

693
00:46:30,070 –> 00:46:32,730
You have nothing to lose
by being kind, it’s free.

694
00:46:32,770 –> 00:46:35,060
Doesn’t cost you anything, little effort.

695
00:46:35,100 –> 00:46:36,450
So just be kind, please.

696
00:46:37,715 –> 00:46:38,395
I love it.

697
00:46:38,705 –> 00:46:43,315
Dana, you’re a very powerful individual
out there doing incredible work.

698
00:46:43,675 –> 00:46:47,745
I want to say thank you for coming
back, sharing it again here on

699
00:46:47,745 –> 00:46:49,544
the Dead America Podcast with us.

700
00:46:50,075 –> 00:46:50,844
I appreciate it.

701
00:46:50,845 –> 00:46:52,465
Thank you again for having me back.

702
00:46:55,474 –> 00:46:57,334
Thank you for joining us today.

703
00:46:57,824 –> 00:47:04,060
If you found this podcast enlightening,
entertaining, educational in any way,

704
00:47:04,860 –> 00:47:11,210
please share, like, subscribe, and join
us right back here next week for another

705
00:47:11,230 –> 00:47:14,520
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.

706
00:47:14,920 –> 00:47:20,410
I’m Ed Watters, your host, enjoy
your afternoon wherever you might be.